[javaee-spec users] [jsr342-experts] Re: Logs. Should we finally do something ?

From: Antonio Goncalves <>
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 20:22:55 +0200

Well, funny enough, it looks like Maven is questionning about logs ( and SLF4J is the
answer. As a former BEA employee and J2EE 1.2 consultant, that reminds me
the good old time of "Entity CMP is the standard" and everybody was doing
something else (Toplink, JDO and then Hibernate). With logs, it's the same
thing "JUL is the standard", yes, but everybody is using LOG4J, SLF4J....

I still keep on receiving emails, comments on my blog about people
interested in standardizing logs (or I should say, people fed up of
struggling with logs in 2012). If spec leads don't really care, well, let's
keep on using LOG4J or SLF4J. It's just a shame that we don't answer a real
problem faced on a day to day basis by developers. Because, no, developpers
don't use JUL, and that's a fact.


On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 12:33 PM, Werner Keil <> wrote:

> Antonio/all,
> After some discussions at JavaOne, most EC Members and a few Spec Leads I
> spoke to seem either not interested or believe, SLF4J is the unspoken
> standard already, so they don't really care about a new Logging JSR either.
> Logging in and for the Cloud might be the only aspect interesting enough,
> but I am afraid, you and maybe a few other people might be at least a
> decade ahead in caring about those things (I was also pleasantly amused at
> JavaOne Embedded to see a great Hype has become of stuff I did 10 years ago
> like Mobile Web remote-controlling smart appliances and greenhouse control
> systems)
> JavaOne Embedded introduced little known upcoming JSRs, including the
> Embedded counterpart to EE if you like:
> Aiming to add features currently in SE/EE like java.util.logging, there
> would be a chance to do something useful by adding a Logging abstraction
> layer both for Embedded and upcoming EE releases (part of EE8 I assume, SE
> may still wait till 9 introduces Modularity)
> This recent DZone article probably highlights best, why "PaaS Logging"
> (Remote or Distributed Logging, also and especially applicable to
> Mobile/Embedded devices with no or very limited storage capacity of their
> own[?]) could be one of the key aspects driving such an initiative after
> all.
> I was involved in a project where we used NIO and SLF4J plus Log4J for
> Distributed Logging to remote databases, and I was among the driving
> architects there, so I know a bit about that.
> While it probably should be done in a proper way, as a coincidence "Java
> Thief" Google seem to be the only ones that seriously dealt with Remote
> Logging using JUL so far:
> I'm afraid, while that lawsuit is still going on as a Never-ending Story,
> we are going to see little input and help by Google on that.
> Not everybody seems to use SLF4J, e.g. JBoss Cloud Service OpenShift, just
> as one example:
> Another use case for Apache Commons Logging we saw during Mark Reinhold's
> Jigsaw keynote (featuring *2 logging frameworks* on a Raspberry Pi) and
> those who saw it, know, how well that one went...
> Regards,
> --
> Werner Keil | JCP Executive Committee Member | Mærsk Build Manager | Java
> Godfather
> Twitter @wernerkeil | #Java_Social | #EclipseUOMo | #OpenDDR
> Skype werner.keil | Google+
> * Java2Days/Cloud2Days: October 25-26 2012, Sofia, Bulgaria. Werner Keil,
> JCP EC Member and Mærsk Build Manager, will present "Java Social", "Java
> EE 7" and "Triple-E class Continuous Delivery with Hudson, Maven, Kokki"
> * JMaghreb: November 2-3 2012, Rabat, Morocco. Werner Keil, JCP EC Member
> and Agorava Committer, will present "Java Social JSR, it's alive"
> * DevoXX: November 13 2012, Antwerp, Belgium. Werner Keil, JCP EC Member
> and Agorava Committer, will present "Java Social JSR, it's alive"

Antonio Goncalves
Software architect and Java Champion
Web site <> |
LinkedIn <> | Paris
JUG<> |
Devoxx France <>

(image/gif attachment: 347.gif)