> And do you think a meeting is a good idea, with respect to the fact that
> all contributors are spread all over the world and don't like the idea
> to stand up in the middle of the night just because someone (who?)
> decided that there are meetings instead of a public online discussion
> and voting system?
It is a tradeoff between making it very easy for people to contribute
and allowing faster decisions with a higher bandwidth.
What we have been doing is combining synchronous (meetings in different
modalities) and asynchronous (mailing lists and blogs) meetings.
Subcomponent groups tend to favor asynchronous mailing lists discussions
because they are smaller and have more participation (and I know the two
are related). The larger integration of all the pieces tends to favor
the synchronous communication mechanisms. But both tools are used.
Apache only uses asynchronous - just email afaik - tools. Given their
goals that seems right. I think our use of both types of tools is the
right for our goals and our size... and the level of external interest.
If we had many external contributors wanting to participate in the
larger architectural decisions, we would lean more on synchronous tools.
- eduard/o
Markus Karg wrote:
>> how many times did you join the weekly engineering meeting ?
>> zero.
>> I make an announcement every week on the dev@ alias.
>
> First, I did not say that I want to be the one that participates to the
> progress, I just said that I want to be able to vote for the community
> members doing that. This is a difference.
>
> Please check this page:
> https://glassfish.dev.java.net/public/devindex.html
>
> Do you see any note about the weekly engineering meeting or that
> architectural questions are discussed on the dev alias?
>
> And do you think a meeting is a good idea, with respect to the fact that
> all contributors are spread all over the world and don't like the idea
> to stand up in the middle of the night just because someone (who?)
> decided that there are meetings instead of a public online discussion
> and voting system?
>
>> if you don't try to participate, you cannot complain later that you
>> were not allowed to participate. I know you have actively and
>> positively participated but if you want to become part of the
>> decisions, you should make yourself visible to the meetings where
>> things are decided.
>
> Well, then you should add this possibility to the page linked above, and
> you should tell everybody in the GlassFish community to discuss their
> internal stuff in that meeting. I was a contributor to TopLink and
> Jersey and I doubt that their internal decision had been discussed in
> that meeting. Or am I wrong here? Or do you translate "GlassFish
> contribution" with "GlassFish Application Server Kernel Contribution"?
>
>> As for the code being spaghetti style, It's certainly what I was
>> suggesting (in a more subtle way...) that GF code in general is
>> intimidating, I truly believe it got better in v3 but it's definitely
>> not an easy task for anyone.
>
> Well, I am still (at least formally) an EclipseLink contributor and I
> can tell you that it is still Spaghetti Code (and those guys bought
> Sun!) and all my attempts to improve them had been responded with "this
> is something that we will not discuss with anybody outside of Oracle".
> What a nice and heartly invitation to participate in favour of quality!
>
>> so if you want to participate, please join the engineering meeting,
>> get the meet the stakeholders of the area you care about and start
>> discussions on what's important to you and that's an advice for anyone
>> on this mailing list !
>
> As long as all the architectural problems are really discussed on the
> mailing list from beginning to end, thank you for the invitation, I will
> join and tell you all the design problems I see in GlassFish and I will
> expect that they will get discussed seriously (otherwise it makes no
> sense to participate). But be assured that it is impossible to attend to
> meetings in the middle of the local night. So if you want to have world
> wide contributors, you need to understand that meetings are a bad idea.
> If you want an open process, you need to understand that the community
> needs to find a process management that is working without drawbacks to
> some of us while others just go to work at normal office hours (yes I
> know how hard that is without touching a phone, I already managed
> several earth spanning open source projects in the past 25 years of
> coding).
>
> Regards
> Markus
>
>
>
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