On 07/22/2009 01:37 PM, glassfish_at_javadesktop.org wrote:
> Do you have any idea what open source stands for?
>
I have to wonder if you do. :-)
Open source means very little - except that the software provider gives
you access to their source code. It doesn't tell us whether the software
costs money to license or support or not. It doesn't say what quality
the software is. It doesn't say what level of community contributions
there are, or what level of corporate sponsorship is provided. None of
this is related to "open source". Glassfish is "open source", as the
source code is provided to the public. It's as simple as that, and as
irrelevant as that. Great, it is open source - so what?
This is where we get to other expectations:
> I am a long time believer in open source. And I have nothing against paying for support on open source products that actually show promise.
>
> But my problem is with projects like glassfish who call themselves open source but really is a sluggish community bringing bad name to all the open source projects.
"Sluggish community". This comes to expectations and investment. The
community is you and me. A sluggish community means contributions are
low from the entire community. Sun does not provide a community - Sun
provides sponsorship. It seems that you and others believe that Sun's
sponsorship level seems especially low of late. I tend to agree. But,
where is the agreement that says that Sun will provide the sponsorship
level you expect throughout, even while it is busy in the "due
diligence" process of being acquired by Oracle? This comes to your
expectations and your investment. What have you done for this community?
What investment have you made to prevent this community from being
"sluggish?" If the community is sluggish - it means you and I are sluggish.
Does Sun have a sponsorship responsibility to provide leadership in this
community? Sure. If they want to claim that this is an activity
community, then they should be enabling the community to be active. They
should be removing obstacles that prevent people from contributing. I've
seen some evidence that they acknowledge this. But - the contributions
still come from you and me. Once they've removed all obstacles - it is
you and me that would be providing "community" contributions.
> Another victim here is JAVA itself. JAVA was designed to be simple and platform independent. You guys have made JAVA based systems so complex and cumbersome that no new developer wants to use it anymore.
>
This is highly off topic and highly subjective. Yes, Java is complex and
cumbersome - but it solves complex and cumbersome problems. "You guys" =
SUN and the JCP, which has representation from several major companies.
I do not agree with your conclusion - as I think Java EE 1.4 and earlier
was much harder to use than Java EE 5, and upcoming Java EE 6. I think
things are improving significantly, albeit slowly. Where I dismissed
Java EE 1.4 as a platform I wanted to be based on before due to its
complexity, I as a "new developer", am looking to take advantage of Java
EE 5, and the upcoming Java EE 6.
> Yes, we need a better system than JBOSS. And that's why I have been looking at Glassfish. The least I expect from the installer is that it works as per the QUICK START GUIDE. The f***ing quick start guide tells me to go to http://localhost:4848 for the admin console. As it turns out there is no admin console. I then post a question on the forum. The forum sends me on a wild goose chase saying try installer X and then installer Y. I try about 5 installers and one of them from months ago works. So, I decide to look at the help page and see how the admin console works.... hmmm.. no help page. I go back to the forum and ask how to make the help page work.......SILENCE.
>
Does Glassfish v2.1 work for you? Does the "supported" Sun App Server
9.1(?) based on Glassfish v3 work for you? Or is the only image you
tried a latest preview build? Did you notice the "preview" stamps all
over the place?
Glassfish v3 preview has worked for me, but I know that Glassfish v3 is
not yet stable, and I have chosen to stay with Glassfish v2.1.
I think I recall one Glassfish v3 preview build failing to install for
me - and I could not figure it out. I rebooted my machine (coincidence)
and then it started to work. This lead me to the conclusion that it was
something in my system (not Glassfish) that was causing the problem.
For people trying to offer you help, but not having access to your
system, and sending you on a "wild goose chase" - I have to assume you
have not been part of an open source community before if you find this
surprising. It happens all the time. It is what happens when you have
varied level of experience and skill community members trying to help
out. Sometimes they get it wrong.
> So, after 2 days of banging my head on my desk, I decide to send out some blasting emails. At this point, it's not a matter of whether I can fix the problem myself and get on with my project. At this point, the question is whether I want to spend anymore days frustrating over this product and a sluggish community. The question is whether I trust y job and the future of my company over this product a product like this. The question is whether I can save other people's time and money by writing some real reviews about Glassfish.
>
> I think I will do more service to open source community by exposing glassfish community than by helping you guys fix the problem.
I suggest you start with the officially released version of Glassfish if
you want to provide a real review of the product.
If you review is going to be based off a development milestone, your
review is likely to be poor, and this is to be expected.
Cheers,
mark
--
Mark Mielke<mark_at_mielke.cc>