Hi Survivant,
Survivant wrote:
> that's a good explaination.
I should have stressed that our preference was to have created a
Swing-based GUI from the start, but...
>
>> As I am certain you face in your development projects, practical
>> technical dependencies, schedules and prudent choices all come into
>> play while making directional decisions.
>
> As the Jython developers note: "Don't rewrite
>> perfectly good Python code in Java
>
> Agreed. I though that you start the update tool from scratch and choose
> python over Java. I agreed to that Jython could be a good move, but if
> there isn't a more value.. why waste time to do that.
It will be good to use Jython when developers need a 100% Java solution.
We don't have plans to migrate the existing Python-based GUI to run over
Python, but Java apps that want to leverage pkg(5) directly via a Java
binding will benefit from the option to run pkg(5) on a JVM. Since our
initial recent tests with Jython 2.5 EA make it appear that it might be
relatively straightforward to provide this optional JVM-based runtime stack.
Porting the Update Tool 2 GUI to Swing doesn't make sense to the team at
this stage. If a version 3 GUI entail a substantial UI redesign, I'm
sure the team will consider a range of UI development toolkits including
Swing and browser-based technologies.
>
> one question. Is it complex to switch to WebStart pack instead of pkg
> for the installation ?
I don't view them as addressing the same space, but if you're familiar
with developing Java Web Start installers, you could probably cobble
together a sample install app using the GF V3 Prelude pkg(5)-enabled
zips pretty easily.
Generally, we make a distinction between an initial install application
and the ongoing addition of new packages and updating of installed
packages. Technologies used to lay down an initial set of bits can be
viewed as complementary to package management technologies. Sometimes
the lines between these two worlds are blurred a bit as in the case of
Java Web Start since it includes an overall application update feature.
The good news is that one can use a wide array of technologies such as
Java Web Start, OpenInstaller, IzPack, InstallShield, expansion of plain
old zip and tar.gz archives, etc. to lay down a pkg(5)-enabled
installation without really caring about also taking on the job of
ongoing package additions and package updates. We feel this approach is
valuable because it offers projects a great deal of choice as to the
initial install technology yet lets the projects and their users benefit
from a consistent set of ongoing install management interfaces. Even
for the same bits, there can be multiple initial install approaches.
We've seen this with GF V3 where there are OpenInstaller, IzPack and
installerless zip archive approaches.
Projects can wrap the ongoing install management pkg(5) interfaces in
their own management apps and, if they want to do so, promote the use of
the generic Update Tool GUI and its companion desktop notifier.
There are examples of both IzPack and OpenInstaller laying down
pkg(5)-enabled images. As we work with the OpenDS team to pkg(5)-enable
their distributions, we'll be extending their use of Java Web Start to
lay down the image. That might be the first example of marrying pkg(5)
to Java Web Start. I expect it to be pretty simple because OpenDS is
essentially delivering a zip within a Web Start wrapper. We'll just be
pkg(5)-enabling that zip file.
The built-in update facility of Java Web Start may or may not have much
of a role to play when using pkg(5)-enabled installations. At a
minimum, it could probably be used to help trigger an image-wide update
form the pkg repositories. We'll get our feet wet as we look at the
OpenDS Java Web Start example.
Chris
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Kampmeier"
> <Christopher.Kampmeier_at_Sun.COM>
> To: <dev_at_updatecenter.dev.java.net>
> Cc: <quality_at_glassfish.dev.java.net>
> Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 1:52 PM
> Subject: Re: b25 lot better than the other promoted build
>
>
>>
>>
>> Judy Tang wrote:
>>> Thanks Survivant, it is great to hear this news from you. Thanks
>>> developer, they worked very hard and fixed a lot of bugs.
>>> I checked your long list of bugs, now only 5 are open :-)
>>>
>>> Let me cc to updatetool developer for your question/suggestion.
>>>
>>> Happy Fishcatting !
>>> Judy
>>>
>>> Survivant 00 wrote:
>>>> - the locale error is fixed,
>>>> - the blank page when admin gui is install is fixed (work for me)
>>>> - no javascript error when accessing the admin gui
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> one question. WHY the update tool is done in python and not Swing ?
>>>> With swing, Glassfish won't have to install python.. and I don't see
>>>> why not promoting Java technologies over python :(
>>
>> As I am certain you face in your development projects, practical
>> technical dependencies, schedules and prudent choices all come into
>> play while making directional decisions.
>>
>> Since the Image Packaging System (aka pkg(5)) infrastructure is
>> written in Python and there isn't a suitable Java->Python solution
>> available, the choice was made back in early CY08 to go with a
>> Python-based GUI framework to develop the standalone Update Tool GUI.
>>
>> Since the Java API for pkg(5) covers only a part of the pkg(5) Python
>> API and this Java API was only recently introduced, using that API for
>> a Swing-based GUI was not a practical option.
>>
>> Later this year we expect to continue experiments with the Jython 2.5
>> early access implementation to validate that running the pkg(5) Python
>> code on top of a JVM will be feasible. Initial experiments bore some
>> positive results, but more investigation is required.
>>
>> With the Jython approach, an evolution of the current Java API for
>> pkg(5) would likely be mapped on top of the underlying Python
>> implementation such that we can avoid completely reimplementing the
>> pkg(5) infrastructure. As the Jython developers note: "Don't rewrite
>> perfectly good Python code in Java!" i.e. Don't reinvent the wheel
>> when technologies such as Jython exist.
>>
>> If later in CY09 people feel it's necessary to implement a Swing-based
>> Update Tool GUI, then people will be better enabled to do so at that
>> time. (Note that use of Jython introduces a dependency in terms of
>> download size, but at least it's cross-platform).
>>
>> More generally, in terms of language choices, bear in mind that since
>> the JVM has been promoted as a great runtime platform for scripting
>> support, promotion of Java over Python or other scripting technologies
>> isn't as material these days. It's all about using the right tool for
>> the job.
>>
>> Chris Kampmeier
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm trying to install updatetool from the updatetool.bat.. but it
>>>> stuck to python. I suppose that's why the Windows installer stall at
>>>> 45%
>>>>
>>>> Installing: [pkg:/pkg_at_1.0.7,0-15.1183:20080912T012943Z]
>>>> pkg:/pkg_at_1.0.7,0-15.1183:20080912T012943Z: downloading 206 files
>>>> pkg:/python2.4-minimal_at_2.4.4.0
>>>> <mailto:python2.4-minimal_at_2.4.4.0>,0-15.1183:20080912T012955Z:
>>>> downloading 262 files
>>>
>>
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>
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