On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 7:50 PM, Markus KARG <markus.karg_at_gmx.net> wrote:
> Thanks for posting, looks interesting.
>
> I know it is off-topic, but in fact I still do not understand why XMPP
> should be worse than SIP... it actually is targeting IM, while SIP is only
> extended to do the same. So why doing it...? You wrote " Why not
>> >> using XMPP, first reason is because of it not being a JSR yet and
> secondly because of our familiarity with JAIN SIP API.". Well, opening a JSR
> for Java support of XMPP will be done in a few minutes if you want me to do
> that, and our familarity with JAIN SIP is only your personal reason -- I was
> talking about a general issue against XMPP holding true for ANY users. So
> why, IN GENERAL, should one do IM via SIP instead of IM via XMPP? I do not
> see the general benefit.
>
Well, firstly you were pointing to standards :) so I thought of
suggesting SIP :). Secondly, I could not agree more that its a bit
off-topic, I hope the community does not mind. Thirdly, what we are
planning includes Presence, Voice/Video over IP, subscription to
different type of services and service integration with telcos, so for
us in a more integrated manner SIP was solving the requirement in a
better way. I was not referring to XMPP as inferior, but rather
referring to SIP as an alternate. IMHO, character based chatting
system will be taken over by VVoIP; so I would actually want to come
up with a system that can be easily extended to support Voice and
Video and yes I do know that XMPP is and can be extended to support
Voice and Video, but then again SIP was originally designed for VVoIP.
So IMHO, if I think from a cumulative standpoint I would prefer SIP
for the integrated solution.
Saying so, I have to say that same thing can be achieved using XMPP as
well, one can actually choose either and I stress that I was not
making a comparison, but just putting forward an option.
I personally vouch for the simple reason that we came up with the
design to get together different platforms (mobile, hand held device
and PC) to use same communication to avail various services.
Please let me know your thoughts.
Best regards,
Imran
> Regards
> Markus
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Imran M Yousuf [mailto:imran_at_smartitengineering.com]
>> Sent: Montag, 8. September 2008 15:28
>> To: users_at_jersey.dev.java.net
>> Subject: Re: [Jersey] Paper tigers and hidden dragons
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 6:42 PM, Markus KARG <markus.karg_at_gmx.net>
>> wrote:
>> > Can you please post the link to the SIP RFC?
>> >
>>
>> http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/simple-charter.html
>> Please have a look at the RFCs mentioned in that page.
>>
>> Please feel free to ask any further question in this regard.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Imran
>>
>> > Thanks
>> > Markus
>> >
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Imran M Yousuf [mailto:imran_at_smartitengineering.com]
>> >> Sent: Montag, 8. September 2008 10:44
>> >> To: users_at_jersey.dev.java.net
>> >> Subject: Re: [Jersey] Paper tigers and hidden dragons
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 1:58 PM, Markus KARG <markus.karg_at_gmx.net>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > I do not know Comet, but I know SIP. Since SIP stands for "Session
>> >> > Initiation Protocol", it might solve the technical problem but I
>> feel
>> >> it is
>> >> > a strong misuse of it's core intention (initiating a session).
>> Isn't
>> >> XMPP
>> >> > the ideal solution? I mean, it was actually invented for pushing
>> any
>> >> XML
>> >> > information snippet. So why not using it?
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Yes SIP was originally designed just for initially, but later SIP
>> was
>> >> extended and redesinged to support Message Sub-pub as well. Why not
>> >> using XMPP, first reason is because of it not being a JSR yet and
>> >> secondly because of our familiarity with JAIN SIP API. IMO, for my
>> >> case and yours SIP would serve wonderfully, I would actually
>> recommend
>> >> it :).
>> >>
>> >> Best regards,
>> >>
>> >> Imran
>> >>
>> >> > Have Fun
>> >> > Markus
>> >> >
>> >> >> In fact for a similar poll type requirement we are considering 2
>> >> >> options - Comet and SIP Servlets. SIP packets can also contain
>> >> custom
>> >> >> MIME types and thats a standard (JSR-289, JSR-32, JSR-141), so
>> thats
>> >> a
>> >> >> strong candidate, for me at least :).
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Cheers,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Imran
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > application. So it is interesting to see what will happen in
>> the
>> >> next
>> >> >> time
>> >> >> > on this sector. Maybe someone comes up with a JMS
>> implementation
>> >> (JMS
>> >> >> is a
>> >> >> > standard, so we can use it) that is configurable to internally
>> use
>> >> >> SMTP or
>> >> >> > XMPP as its native protocol, who knows? ;-)
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Have Fun
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Markus
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > From: Paul.Sandoz_at_Sun.COM [mailto:Paul.Sandoz_at_Sun.COM]
>> >> >> > Sent: Montag, 8. September 2008 08:43
>> >> >> > To: users_at_jersey.dev.java.net
>> >> >> > Subject: Re: [Jersey] Paper tigers and hidden dragons
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > On Sep 5, 2008, at 7:21 PM, Markus KARG wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Paul,
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > thank you for posting the link. It was really interesting to
>> read.
>> >> >> While I
>> >> >> > share Roy's conclusion, I actually think that XMPP is very
>> >> >> interesting and
>> >> >> > maybe in some future the world might accept that there are two
>> >> >> general
>> >> >> > purpose protocols: HTTP for polling services, and XMPP for
>> pushing
>> >> >> services.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Could be :-) the sometimes difficult part is to know when to
>> >> >> correctly apply
>> >> >> > what technology.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Maybe JAX-RS 3.0 will support it? ;-)
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > It would be interesting to see if XMPP and RESTful services can
>> be
>> >> >> combined
>> >> >> > in terms of a Web application. There may be a lot of
>> similarities
>> >> >> with XMPP
>> >> >> > and Comet in this respect.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Paul.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Regards
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Markus
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > From: Paul.Sandoz_at_Sun.COM [mailto:Paul.Sandoz_at_Sun.COM]
>> >> >> > Sent: Freitag, 5. September 2008 10:17
>> >> >> > To: users_at_jersey.dev.java.net
>> >> >> > Subject: [Jersey] Paper tigers and hidden dragons
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Hi,
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > For those interested in designing HTTP-based systems Roy's
>> latest
>> >> >> blog entry
>> >> >> > is an excellent piece of thinking [*] about creating URIs and
>> >> >> scaling:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > http://roy.gbiv.com/untangled/2008/paper-tigers-and-hidden-
>> dragons
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > (the comments are interesting too, especially the XMPP and SMTP
>> >> >> comparison).
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > When i briefly looked at the REST and XMPP presentation (and
>> the
>> >> blog
>> >> >> > entries about it) my right eyebrow did raise slightly in
>> >> skepticism
>> >> >> as to
>> >> >> > why the example chosen could not be solved using plain old
>> HTTP,
>> >> but
>> >> >> then i
>> >> >> > moved on and got distracted by something else. In the less than
>> 30
>> >> >> seconds
>> >> >> > it took for me to be skeptical Roy had a solution, oh well :-)
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Paul.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > [*] If It Doesn't Fit, Resource It
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > http://www.crummy.com/2008/09/04/0
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> Imran M Yousuf
>> >> >> Entrepreneur & Software Engineer
>> >> >> Smart IT Engineering
>> >> >> Dhaka, Bangladesh
>> >> >> Email: imran_at_smartitengineering.com
>> >> >> Blog: http://imyousuf-tech.blogs.smartitengineering.com/
>> >> >> Mobile: +880-1711402557
>> >> >>
>> >> >> -----------------------------------------------------------------
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>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Imran M Yousuf
>> >> Entrepreneur & Software Engineer
>> >> Smart IT Engineering
>> >> Dhaka, Bangladesh
>> >> Email: imran_at_smartitengineering.com
>> >> Blog: http://imyousuf-tech.blogs.smartitengineering.com/
>> >> Mobile: +880-1711402557
>> >>
>> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe_at_jersey.dev.java.net
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>> >
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Imran M Yousuf
>> Entrepreneur & Software Engineer
>> Smart IT Engineering
>> Dhaka, Bangladesh
>> Email: imran_at_smartitengineering.com
>> Blog: http://imyousuf-tech.blogs.smartitengineering.com/
>> Mobile: +880-1711402557
>>
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--
Imran M Yousuf
Entrepreneur & Software Engineer
Smart IT Engineering
Dhaka, Bangladesh
Email: imran_at_smartitengineering.com
Blog: http://imyousuf-tech.blogs.smartitengineering.com/
Mobile: +880-1711402557