Talking about our experiences at customers, JNDI is not what I commonly see.
Teams use Maven profiles, property.files, XML, Spring Configuration or funny
parsing of Strings (eg. @@This is a value you need to parse@@). And that's
also because JNDI is of no use when you work with Tomcat, Batch of other
non-full-EE server.
All this is funny because configuration is crucial to applications and it
feels we don't use the right tool. I would like to hear more from people of
the OSGi landscape, Spring Config or Seam Config... They have a lot of
experience in this matter
On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 16:16, Jeff Genender <jgenender_at_savoirtech.com>wrote:
> I have to say that we all see different visuals based on our own customers
> and our own perspectives with what we work with ;-)
>
> I do a lot of service based EE work and the biggest cry I hear is run time
> deployment management and administration including provisioning, etc. This
> area is really hot right now from my perspective and it plays very heavily
> in the the cloud arena.
>
> I think its definitely something we need to grapple with and not put off
> since we will be behind the 8-ball again in getting these things ready to
> market.
>
> The biggest problem we have out there in this area is a lot of
> fragmentation in the configuration/management/admin of stacks and I really
> think its a good idea for us to tackle this and not put it off to JavaEE8.
>
> Just my lousy .02 ;-)
>
> Jeff
>
> On Jun 14, 2011, at 8:06 AM, Reza Rahman wrote:
>
> > Kristoffer,
> >
> > To be completely honest with you, we don't see a big customer demand for
> deployment-time/run-time administration of deployment descriptors (I know
> that's probably crazy talk in Java EE land with all of our Java EE roles
> :-)). In our design we have the capability to bind values from a property
> like this:${some.value}. The property could either come from a property file
> (pre-pended by the property file name if needed or get overridden by a
> system/environment property if needed). Admins could change those values if
> they like. From my consulting days though, I haven't seen many admins too
> eager to muck with application meta-data :-).
> >
> > I do understand that increasing deployment descriptor flexibility could
> make administration tools development harder. It's just that I think it is
> the right trade-off to make. On the other hand, it wouldn't be so bad to
> have the run-time administration toolsjust look like XML property editors
> would it?
> >
> > I am not sure about the configuration API part. Do we really need it
> since reading XML is so trivial? There really is no practical reason you
> could not use a CDI/EJB SPI to do any kind of run-time configuration change
> (proprietary or otherwise)? That's what we do for CDI right now anyway -- we
> parse/read the custom beans.xml and pass on the meta-data via the CDI
> portable extensions SPI to the CDI implementation (that's right now our own
> implementation).
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Reza
> >
> >
> > On 6/14/2011 4:15 AM, Kristoffer Sjögren wrote:
> >> Hi
> >>
> >> Very interesting. Do you see a possibility for runtime administration of
> configuration using same meta model?
> >>
> >> Closed source products may not ship the build environment to customers
> as they treat xml descriptors as source code, sealing archives with a
> version, package signature before released to the package management system.
> This kind of product development would benefit from a programatic SPI that
> enable the system administrator to discover and override application
> configuration at runtime.
> >>
> >> Potentially resulting in more productive development release cycle with
> decreased turn-around times since no repackaging+deploy would be needed.
> >>
> >> Would Java EE Product Providers expose proprietary server configuration
> using same SPI possibly, enabling configuration management unification for
> server and application?
> >>
> >> I believe configuration is an important topic and would be more than
> willing to collaborate on this work.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> -Kristoffer
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >>
> >> From: Reza Rahman [mailto:reza_rahman_at_lycos.com]
> >> Sent: den 10 juni 2011 19:51
> >> To: jsr342-experts_at_javaee-spec.java.net
> >> Subject: [jsr342-experts] Re: Configuration
> >>
> >>
> >> Antonio,
> >>
> >> Sorry for the late reply -- I have been out of town this week and in
> meetings. I'll contribute details as soon as I can...
> >>
> >> Your initial thoughts look about right. In our case, we allow the usage
> of EJB meta-data outside of EJB in CDI managed beans, also revamp the
> web.xml, application.xml, etc to be more compact/type-safe/flexible and
> allow for fragments/meta-data mixing for all XML. In short, we see it is an
> overhaul/modernization for Java EE XML configuration.
> >>
> >> The big problem in making our solution completely portable is the lack
> of a Servlet, EJB, etc, meta-data SPI (as Pete alluded to as an issue). It's
> also the case that Seam Config solves 80%-90% of the problems...
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Reza
> >>
> >>
> >> On 6/10/2011 8:17 AM, Antonio Goncalves wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> I'm not a configuration expert but, as a developer and deployer I
> feel something more is needed. I started to put some ideas into this email
> and then I switched to my blog. So here are my humble thoughts on the topic
> :
> >>
> >>
> http://agoncal.wordpress.com/2011/06/10/debate-and-what-about-configuration-in-java-ee-7/
> >>
> >> Reza and al, we can use this as a starting point to exchange an
> what configuration could look like
> >>
> >> Antonio
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 02:01, Reza Rahman<reza_rahman_at_lycos.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Antonio,
> >>
> >> FYI, we do have some of these details hashed out
> internally. If it saves you time, I am happy to share those details.
> >>
> >> As I said, this has been on our radar, I'm just not
> entirely sure about priorities for Java EE 7 vs Java EE 8, etc.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Reza
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 6/6/2011 6:01 PM, Linda DeMichiel wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Antonio,
> >>
> >> Sounds interesting, tell us more....
> >>
> >> thanks,
> >>
> >> -Linda
> >>
> >>
> >> On 6/2/2011 10:47 AM, Antonio Goncalves wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> I would like to share some thoughts with
> you.
> >>
> >> I've used in the past Spring Config and
> latelly I've attended a conference that talked about Seam Config. Clearly I
> can
> >> see the benefit of having easy
> configuration on the entire platform. At the moment we have ejb-jar.xml and
> environment
> >> entries to configure our EJBs. We can also
> use the web.xml to pass some parameters to our servlets and bits and pieces
> >> in the application.xml file.
> >>
> >> Why not having a seperate spec that takes
> inspiration from Seam Config, Spring Config and so on to be able to
> configure
> >> the entire platform (a CDI bean as well as
> an EJB...). Configuration will also be used for Paas purposes of course.
> >>
> >> Configuration is an important topic and
> developers never know where to put it : property files, XML, database, JNDI.
> Why
> >> not having a spec that specifies how
> configuration should work (I really like the Seam Config approach) and each
> spec
> >> could then use it to specify how to
> configure a specific component, as well as batch processing or Paas/Saas
> >> configuration...
> >>
> >> Again, my 2 cents
> >>
> >> --
> >> Antonio Goncalves
> >> Software architect and Java Champion
> >>
> >> Web site<http://www.antoniogoncalves.org>
> | Twitter<http://twitter.com/agoncal> | Blog
> >> <
> http://feeds.feedburner.com/AntonioGoncalves> | LinkedIn<
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/agoncal> | Paris JUG
> >> <http://www.parisjug.org>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----
> >>
> >> No virus found in this message.
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> >>
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> Release Date: 06/06/11
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Antonio Goncalves
> >> Software architect and Java Champion
> >>
> >> Web site<http://www.antoniogoncalves.org> | Twitter<
> http://twitter.com/agoncal> | Blog<
> http://feeds.feedburner.com/AntonioGoncalves> | LinkedIn<
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/agoncal> | Paris JUG<http://www.parisjug.org>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >>
> >>
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> >>
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> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
--
Antonio Goncalves
Software architect and Java Champion
Web site <http://www.antoniogoncalves.org> |
Twitter<http://twitter.com/agoncal>|
Blog <http://feeds.feedburner.com/AntonioGoncalves> |
LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/in/agoncal>| Paris
JUG <http://www.parisjug.org>