Please do introduce yourself there and what you'd like to help us do. We need all the help we can get and you will be most welcome amongst us.
Optimism is never a problem and neither is being polite - it will only propel us forward. It's just that we need to hold Oracle accountable as users, partners and customers. That inevitably requires playing bad cop sometimes.
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------From: Steven Siebert <smsiebe_at_gmail.com> Date: 4/1/16 11:01 AM (GMT-05:00) To: users_at_glassfish.java.net Subject: [gf-users] Re: Glassfish Server Open Source Version
I've become a member of the Java EE Guardian group, I'll take a moment to introduce myself there soon. Hopefully my not having personal experiences with Corporate Oracle, and my ever-optimistic attitude, will be more adventurous than a drag on the group - at least there is a good chance you'll get a couple laughs at my expense =)
S
On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 8:43 AM, reza_rahman <reza_rahman_at_lycos.com> wrote:
Firstly let me tell you first hand that you are giving Oracle far more credit than they actually deserve. Oracle may be far less rational, well informed and willing to listen than you think. I can't blame you entirely. There was a brief moment in time when I gave Oracle too much credit too.
That being said these are exactly the things we are working on with the Java EE Guardian effort. If you really want to help the best way to do that is joining us and working as a very broad, high profile group.
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------From: Steven Siebert <smsiebe_at_gmail.com> Date: 4/1/16 8:04 AM (GMT-05:00) To: users_at_glassfish.java.net Subject: [gf-users] Re: Glassfish Server Open Source Version
Oracle is a business. Despite what we may feel, they are neither evil nor are they anti-open source or anything like that. They are predictable, they are lookinout for their shareholders best interest. Looking at thier long term stock trends, i would say they are pretty good at it. What this means is thry they are either helmed by a quarum of psychics or they seek and act on advice of others. IMO if they are convinced an action is in their shareholders best interest, they will at least listen and may act, and given the possibility of success not trying is worse than defeat. I mean, hell, worse case is you have a great story the grandkids hate hearing about over and over at thanksgiving.
If GF is intentionally or otherwise being killed through neglect (biggest indication to me is they seemed to have stopped running nightly builds in October, or at least are no longer posting them to glassfish.org), Oracle may be primed for such a proposition. This, along with many inside people leaving because Oracle is not being a good steward of Java, Oracle may consider moving off what they consider dead weight in a way that paints them as good stewards of Java. Off the top of my head one reason this might be in their interest is the $10B lawsuit Oracle is once again suing google over android.
Further, this isn't without president for Oracle. I mentioned OpenOffice, but they have also made additional donations such as TopLink to the Eclipse foundation.
I honestly believe Oracle has demonstrated they can (are) a good steward of open source technologies IF it supports a current or possible new business opportunity. We all have our own reasons for supporting open source, or doing anything for that matter...coming at Oracle saying they should support EE for any other reason than as an investment with defined risks and projected profits is not going to (and IMO shouldn't) interest them.
I suppose what I am suggesting is that if the EE/GF community sees value in GF (the stuff beyond source code) we should carefully (and transparently) put together a proposal and see where it takes us. Hell, we could even make that a subproject/team of Payara with is own github repo/home. If they say 'no', we have an official answer and can move on from there. It has value to me, so I would be willing to work toward this (or however the team determine best to approach Oracle) if other feel what could be gained for Java/EE/GF is worth the time.
S
On Friday, April 1, 2016, Markus Karg <karg_at_quipsy.de> wrote:
IMHO it will never happen that Oracle allows third parties to user any of their product names, which GlassFish is one of.
Hence the only solution you have is to either make your customers understand that GlassFish is not supported anymore, or work for other customers.
-Markus
Von: Steven Siebert [mailto:smsiebe_at_gmail.com]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 31. März 2016 17:18
An: users_at_glassfish.java.net
Betreff: [gf-users] Re: Glassfish Server Open Source Version
Sadly, it's not as easy for me to switch to Payara because my customer (US Army, but by and large same goes for any federal org under NIST/FISMA/RMF) uses the "name" (and version...and applies their own rigid
rules on what a version format means even though this is vendor/program specific...but another story for another day) as a unique reference "identifier" in approval/accreditation/IA documents. Sadly, changing from GF to Payara, despite its technical AND security
benefits, is more difficult than it should be. If/when we get to that point, we wouldn't just be moving from GF to Payara, we would be looking at it in a much bigger picture, including considering moving away from the GF technology altogether (something I
don't necessarily want to do). This is why I stepped out of the shadows and commented - however silly, it would be beneficial if the "Glassfish" trademark/name be moved.
Moving the designation as EE RI along with that would be amazing for the Java EE community, but just the designation would save time and money downstream.
S
On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 11:05 AM, Markus Karg <karg_at_quipsy.de> wrote:
We also are migrating our customers to Payara and are very happy with that company, but we would love to have a cleaned situation, i. e. Oracle clearly telling that GlassFish is dead.
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Andreas Ernst [mailto:ae_at_ae-online.de]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 31. März 2016 16:55
An: users_at_glassfish.java.net
Betreff: [gf-users] Re: Glassfish Server Open Source Version
Hi Markus,
Am 31.03.16 um 16:40 schrieb Markus Karg:
> Maybe „the community” should simply fork GlassFish on GitHub, register
> hundreds of well-known contributors there as the new managing
> organization, and then ask Oracle to simply hand out the trademark
> name. ;-)
>
> I bet, they won’t be cooperative even then! L
i think Orcale will GlassFish let die. I asume they are not more interested.
I moved to Payara:
https://github.com/payara/Payara
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