Mr Dochez,
You are wasting your time. These people are not interested in helping.
They are whiners. They are chest thumpers - making noise for the sake
of making noise. They waste not only your time but everyone's time.
They are just rude. I empathize with you and your fellow workers. Why
some people believe they should abuse other people on a community forum
I do not understand. Anyone that uses abusive language - and then
receives the advocacy of Mr. Karg - who do these people think they are -
it is folks like these who ruin an excellent forum. It is a sad day
when the whiners and chest thumpers take over a forum.
Mr. Dochez, there are many on this forum who appreciate all the hard
work that you SUN guys are doing. I am sorry that you have to put up
with abuse just to do your job. I wish you lots of success.
Thanx for your hard work,
Ray
-----Original Message-----
From: Jerome.Dochez_at_Sun.COM [mailto:Jerome.Dochez_at_Sun.COM]
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 11:09 AM
To: users_at_glassfish.dev.java.net
Subject: Re: GLASSFISH IS LAME
how many times did you join the weekly engineering meeting ?
zero.
I make an announcement every week on the dev@ alias.
if you don't try to participate, you cannot complain later that you were
not allowed to participate. I know you have actively and positively
participated but if you want to become part of the decisions, you should
make yourself visible to the meetings where things are decided.
As for the code being spaghetti style, It's certainly what I was
suggesting (in a more subtle way...) that GF code in general is
intimidating, I truly believe it got better in v3 but it's definitely
not an easy task for anyone.
so if you want to participate, please join the engineering meeting, get
the meet the stakeholders of the area you care about and start
discussions on what's important to you and that's an advice for anyone
on this mailing list !
jerome
On Jul 23, 2009, at 7:15 AM, Markus Karg wrote:
> Jerome,
>
> still you did not convince me (and remember, I *am* / *was* a
> contributor to Java EE 6 / 5 in projects).
>
> The point is that GlassFish's internal structures are completely Sun /
> Oracle inventions, so nobody outside of this companies has the time
> and knowledge to understand it. If you really want to get volunteers
> in the boat (remember, we are no students, we all are long-experienced
> software architects), you must get the code to a style that allows
> externals to work on small components which can be overseen in the
> spare time. I tried with EclipseLink. It is nearly impossible, since
> it is Spaghetti Code in some areas.
>
> Also, people not only want to do the "dirty work" like doing the
> hacking while others do the decisions. They want to participiate in
> the decisions. Remember, we do not talk about specification decisions
> (everybody can become part of JCP), we talk about *implementation*
> decision. Why? Because this thread started about bugs, and bugs are
> not decided by JCP, obviously.
>
> So in theory you are right, everybody can participate in JCP. But in
> reality nobody cares for JCP, they all care for the implementation,
> since this is what users see and feel later. And THERE nobody outside
> of Sun / Oracle can officially participate. Or did I miss a link where
> I can add myself to the EJB 3.1 Client Container team to actively
> participate in the decisions that where leading to the hangs that I
> still experience...?
>
> Regards
> Markus
>
>> The processes to define what goes in glassfish is much more open than
>> what you seem to think. First of all, even Sun engineers don't have
>> that much to say in what goes into glassfish because it's mostly
>> driven by specifications. Specifications are driven within the JCP
>> and are open to external participants so one good way of driving
>> features into Glassfish and others appservers is actually to
>> participate to the JCP process. Above the Java EE specifications, we
>> have also released all the product specifications by feature and
>> that's also an opportunity to add or criticize.
>>
>> On top of that, we have had a lot of committers willing to
>> participate to the GlassFish project itself. I have personally tried
>> to involve some of these external committers to some task (yes they
>> have to start small so we gain confidence) but in general, the
>> GlassFish project being so big, the source code is intimidating, or
>> the people just end up not having the time, most of them don't follow
>> up. We do have some who participates daily and I don't think we ever
>> kept them in the dark. All meetings are open for anyone to join at
>> least by phone.
>>
>> At the end, I don't remember shutting out anyone willing to
>> participate (granted his level of participation was useful) but the
>> reality is that we cannot expect external folks to be able to spend
>> considerable amount of their personal time on the project which would
>> be necessary to not introduce more risks to a schedule.
>>
>> For such a big project, the overwhelming size of the code, the time
>> involved in understanding enough of GF is probably the biggest
>> barrier to participation but it's certainly not a conscious decision
>> from Sun to hide anything.
>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Markus
>>
>>
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