From: Werner Keil <werner.keil_at_gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2012 10:30:26 +0100

Hi,

On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 8:24 AM, Markus Eisele <myfear_at_web.de> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> > Interesting, this was a much loved feature in Seam. Perhaps it's a
> feature more aimed at development time, than production time?
>
> Indeed, it does make sense for development. but anyway, if you have
> the requirement to setup stuff "the hard way" in production most of
> the projects I have seen tend to introduce that kind of stuff from the
> beginning on and don't rely on the development time improvements.
> Might be an issue related to the project environment.
>
> > I'm not sure how it relates to configuration?
>
> Most of the things that need to be done on "application ready" have
> some kind of configuration aspects. And Werner was also right, that it
> might also be part of "Statemanagement" (whatever that truly will be
> about in EE8) ...
> I'm simply unsure if this kind of "lifecycle events" would better fit
> into a configuration or even a statemanagement JSR ... somebody from
> Orcl cloud comment on that probably?
>
>
I am not sure, if we spoke about that in recent State Management hangout
calls, and there seems to be pressure by the new process to get an EDR out
soon (that JSR saw a Spec Lead change, so it was delayed a bit after that[?])
but I had that in mind when I first heard about the Configuration
Management idea.

All I saw about that is more structure and organisation of configuration
files, so I could not say, if a configuration effort was to deal with the
application's or container's state by itself. What it sure should also
configure is the state of containers and deliverables based on JSR 350, so
the two will have to coordinate well (given both seem Oracle lead, that is
hopefully not too hard[?])


> > Work is being done on this in DeltaSpike project. If it proves popular
> and successful, we will propose it for CDI.next.
>
> Pragmatic solution! Thanks!
>
> - M
>
>
> >>
> >> - M
> >>
> >>> On 28 Nov 2012, at 18:51, Markus Eisele wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hi Pete,
> >>>>
> >>>> i'm undecided. We already have a couple (i beliebe it's probably more
> >>>> than 7) of ways to "get things started"
> >>>>
> http://blog.eisele.net/2010/12/seven-ways-to-get-things-started-java.html
> >>>>
> >>>> What exactly should be the added value here?
> >>>>
> >>>> - M
> >>>>
> >>>> On 28 November 2012 19:39, Pete Muir <pmuir_at_bleepbleep.org.uk> wrote:
> >>>>> A long requested feature from the community has been for some sort
> of "application ready" event, which is fired just before the application is
> put into service, and starts handling external requests.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Some use cases:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> * Loading/processing some data, for example data that's been
> collected whilst the application was down
> >>>>> * Starting timers or async events
> >>>>> * Other application initialization tasks
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This event should happen once all services (e.g. CDI, BV, JPA, EJB,
> JTA) required by the application are ready.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> There may be some optional services, e.g. those that are started on
> demand, that are not required, and do not need to be ready for this event
> to be sent. This event should happen before the application starts handling
> external requests (e.g. web service requests, web requests, ejb remote
> invocations). In general, it seems sane that an application cannot handle
> requests successfully until all required services are available.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> For the purposes of this proposal, we define external request as one
> originating from outside the application deployment, and internal as one
> originating from inside the application deployment.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In order to tackle this problem one step at a time, we propose we
> start by just considering external requests as those coming in via the
> Servlet container. This should make the problem more manageable!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Should the application wish to perform some sync task, and allow the
> application to handle requests, whilst performing it, this also needs to be
> possible.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Finally, the application needs to be able to say to the server that
> it is ready to start servicing requests.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> We would propose that we need to make these changes to the spec.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 1) We send a CDI event when the required services are ready
> >>>>> 2) By default this event *does not* block the server immediately
> moving to servicing external requests
> >>>>> 3) The observer of this event is able to act as though it were
> executing during application runtime, and can make any internal call. If it
> makes an external call to itself, that call will not succeed
> >>>>> 4) We introduce the ability to suspend external requests, until the
> event observers complete, or until the external requests are told to
> proceed. We propose for now we focus on web requests and add a servlet
> context parameter that enable the ability to suspend external requests, and
> add a ServletContext.ready() method, that tells the request completes. In
> future iterations we need to address other remote protocols. The observers
> can make this call at any point, at which point the app starts processing
> external requests, the observer may continue to execute beyond here.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> WDYT?
> >>>
> >
>
Werner