[javaee-spec users] Re: [jsr342-experts] Re: Minimal profile ?

From: Craig Ringer <>
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 09:25:00 +0800

On 07/30/2012 09:51 PM, Antonio Goncalves wrote:
> Like you, more and more I think JSF should not have been into the Web
> Profile. But as we can see today, there are more and more applications
> with NoSQL architecture without JPA/JTA
Just a nit-pick: "NoSQL" in no way means that JTA is useless. XA
transactions remain useful for any application that needs to make atomic
(or as-atomic-as-possible) changes to two or more data storage
locations, at least one of which is transactional.

Similarly, JPA is by no stretch limited to SQL. EclipseLink for example
is perfectly capable of querying a variety of non-SQL datasources:

Yes, many developers who've jumped onto the NoSQL bandwagon have thrown
away most of the existing infrastructure in the process. It remains
useful, though, JTA in particular.

It seems there's a real need for the EE spec to decide what is and is
not covered. At what point does a container cease to be a Java EE
environment and become a collection of home-rolled components?

Personally I don't see a compelling reason to change from the current
profiles. They're OK, and it's become clear that no profile will ever
satisfy every user. Profiles are a marketing feature anyway; container
are entirely free to let you disable unwanted features like JSF, and
some containers like AS7 do exactly that, only enabling JSF on demand.

I'm just not seeing the compelling development or operations
problem//being solved by a minimal profile. It sounds like no profile
will be minimal enough unless it's a bare servlet container, in which
case why bother?

> . And we have more and more Web based apps. So, really, if we want a
> profile that doesn't take the UI and the persistence into account (ie.
> no JSF, JSP, JPA, JTA, EJB Lite)... then, there is only Servlet, CDI
> and Bean Validation left.

So ... a servlet container with CDI? What's to usefully standardise
there? And why, when container portability is unlikely to be concern for
people who're basically rolling their own anyway?

> With NoSQL applications coming strong (without JSF/JSP in mind) Java
> EE and the Web Profile will be seen as bloated and Tomcat/Jetty will
> remain the preferred app server for deploying "modern applications".

Bloat is significantly a matter of perception and implementation, not
the standard. Being smart about lazily activating components in a
container gets you a long way, and we're only seeing this beginning to
be exploited.

I think Jim Knutson's argument makes sense: Leave it alone until there's
a decent modularity system so it can be done properly.

Craig Ringer
Craig Ringer