[jsr342-experts] Re: Logs. Should we finally do something ?

From: Bill Shannon <bill.shannon_at_oracle.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 15:36:14 -0700

Markus Eisele wrote on 09/11/12 06:28:
> After watching this discussion from the silent corner I might add some
> more thoughts here.
> Beside the fact that I completely second every single line Antonio has
> written, I can only stress that
> I face logging issues with every single project I see.
> On top of that comes the product integration. GlassFish completely
> relies on JUL. Adding alternatives
> forces you to tweak things. WLS offers both JUL and log4j and on-top
> it's proprietary framework.
> Only two examples show how easy it is to develop _platform neutral_
> here and how big the needed
> changes are if you are moving app-servers. If not in the code you end
> up tweaking the infrastructure.
> And on top .. let's take a look at newly scoped EE 8. What common
> cloud-focused logging use-cases do you expect to come up?
> - Different logging frameworks per application?
> - Different log-files per application? One for the app? one for the
> server? One for security incidents? One for .... whatever?
> - Logfiles per instance? per application? per stakeholder view
> (deployer, ops, developer)?
> - If we think about PaaS we should have at least a decent support for
> web-based control panels and give the needed granularity separate
> logging possibilities.
> - Applications tend to have their logfiles. Ops is using Nagios or
> syslog-ng ... should we simply define handlers for each and let
> vendors
> take care of the rest based on JUL or would it be better to have a
> more isolated approach from the bottom up?
> I know that I am mixing things a bit here. Changing Java Logging isn't
> the same than adding PaaS logging features. We might try too much
> here.
> And this EG might not even be the right one to argue about different
> approaches. But someone hast to start this discussion, right?
> @Bill: May I ask about your idea about Logging with PaaS in EE 8? Do
> you have anything special in mind?


As described in my previous message, I would expect the PaaS provider
to decide how log messages are stored, where they're stored, how they're
viewed, etc. I wouldn't expect to standardize this in Java EE.

If applications want to manage their own log files with their own log
messages, without any help from the app server / PaaS provider, then
using a third party logging framework that's independent of java.util.logging
is probably the best approach.

But I'm interested in hearing requirements from Java EE application developers.