[jsr342-experts] Re: Minimal profile ?

From: Antonio Goncalves <antonio.goncalves_at_gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2012 18:44:29 +0200

Good point, having a SPI would be brilliant for pluggability. I also
understand Pete's point of view as classloading is still an issue with app
servers. My fear is that we will still see "Tomcat-like" applications and
"EE-like" application running on different app server vendors. But well, we
have done that for many years now, a few extra won't hurt


On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 5:41 PM, Jason T. Greene <jason.greene_at_redhat.com>wrote:

> I know what you are getting it, but I still want to stress that Modularity
> != Plugability, although it is a helpful tool in achieving it.
> The problem is that to integrate JSF fully and correctly in compliance
> with the EE spec you have to use non-standard integration hooks. Even with
> the RI (mojarra) those impl specific hooks have changed in a non-compatible
> way between minor versions. So for a container provider to support even
> multiple versions of one implementation, you have to implement integration
> code for each one.
> JPA did a good start with having an SPI (although it could be better, let
> the container do the bytecode analysis vs the provider). I am all for
> adding plugability SPIs, but the minimal profile is a no-go for me. Really
> all a minmal profile is, is just the serlet spec, and vendors can still
> release standalone servlet containers if they want. Calling the servlet
> spec a "Java EE Profile" wouldn't really change anything, other than maybe
> confuse people.
> On 6/29/12 4:46 PM, Werner Keil wrote:
>> Antonio,
>> Interesting idea. How big is the difference between what you propose and
>> the Web Profile, e.g. the TomEE server meets?
>> EE 7 could offer a limited set of Modularity, but when the decision was
>> made to drop Modularity from the Java 7 Platform due to the
>> complications and challenges, the OpenJDK team is facing up until this
>> day, I was among the first to point out the negative impact this would
>> have on EE to then Spec Lead Roberto, and others, particularly EC
>> Members present.
>> Further Modularity or additional profiles may only work if the
>> foundation really became modular. We hope and trust that's going to be
>> EE8 or any EE that can use Java (8) Modularity.
>> Werner
>> Am 29.06.2012 23:35 schrieb "Antonio Goncalves"
>> <antonio.goncalves_at_gmail.com <mailto:antonio.goncalves@**gmail.com<antonio.goncalves_at_gmail.com>
>> >>:
>> Hi all,
>> Four years ago, when we were building Java EE 6, we had this idea of
>> a minimal profile that Roberto blogged about
>> (http://weblogs.java.net/blog/**robc/archive/2008/02/profiles_**
>> in_the.html<http://weblogs.java.net/blog/robc/archive/2008/02/profiles_in_the.html>
>> ).
>> The idea was to standardise "Tomcat-like" application servers with a
>> minimal profile containing Servlets and JSPs. So we would have had
>> this "minimal" profile, the web profile and the full one. We mostly
>> voted no on this minimal profile, and I was one of them.
>> I've spent the week migrating a JSF 1.2 application running on
>> Tomcat to JBoss 6 EAP (which comes with JSF 2.0). Now I'm trying to
>> run an application with JAX-RS 2.0 running on GlassFish 3.x (which
>> comes with JAX-RS 1.1). On both cases, it's hell. This would be
>> easier if I could have used a JBoss 6 EAP Minimal Profile (or a
>> GlassFish 3.x Minimal Profile) and bundle my own external jars like
>> I do with Tomcat. If we want applications to migrate to Java EE
>> application servers, one ease of use would be to have just a servlet
>> container. And it will give a nice migration plan to application :
>> e.g. "migrate from Tomcat to JBoss Minimal profile, and then when
>> you are used to your new application server, move to a Web Profile
>> and start adding other Java EE modules".
>> I think having a new "Minimal Profile" (a better name would be a
>> "Servlet Profile" with just Servlets, EL and JSP) would increase
>> modularity in application servers and help applications to migrate
>> to Java EE.
>> What would you think of introducing a new profile in Java EE 7 ?
>> Antonio
> --
> Jason T. Greene
> JBoss AS Lead / EAP Platform Architect
> JBoss, a division of Red Hat

Antonio Goncalves
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