Arjan and Guillermo,
Thanks for the taxonomy of possible solutions. FWIW, the first three
seem most compatible with the JACC SPI and policy enforcement model.
Regarding the 1st, please note that I was not advocating that JACC make
it mandatory for JACC providers
to be loaded via the extension mechanism, but I would be interested in
investigating whether
it would be reasonable to recommend that the extension mechanism be used
as a universally
supported provder loading mechanism.
As I understand the platform spec, all compatible containers are
required to support the
extension loading mechanism. If so, that existing requirement should be
sufficient to bootstrap
JACC in a common way on all application servers and then, within a
specific JACC provider
you could bootstrap the per application policy environment you are
seeking (I presume as part of JSR 375).
If the extension mechanism is not suitable for use by JACC, then I think
we should consider requiring support
(in JACC) for an approach like the other 2 of your first three.
That said, if JSR 375 were to use JACC in this fashion, it would likely
interfere
with the existing use of JACC by the container...; which suggests that
what you are looking for
would require fundamental changes to JACC or its use model; as suggested
by your reference to the
JASPIC factory (as precedent for per application policy enforcement).
The JACC model is basically a common policy enforcement engine applied
to per application policy; in
which any application context required to enforce application specific
policy is made available to the
policy enforcement engine via a combination of callbacks and interceptors.
It looks like you are looking for per application policy engines/logic,
and I guess I'd like to
get a better handle on your use cases, before I am convinced that it
would be useful to
standardize per application Policy providers as part of JACC.
It would also help if you can clarify what you are looking for from JACC.
JACC will cause the container to convey the policy rules (obtained from
DD's and annotations)
to your provider via the policy configuration interface. JAcCC will also
cause the container to invoke
your provider to make pre-dispatch and programmatic access checks.
Ron
On 7/8/16 6:30 PM, arjan tijms wrote:
> Hi Ron,
>
> Great hearing from you!
>
> On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 5:01 PM, Ron Monzillo <ron.monzillo_at_oracle.com
> <mailto:ron.monzillo_at_oracle.com>> wrote:
>
> Note that does NOT rule out the possibility of replacing the JRE
> scoped
> Policy provider, with a provider that loads and delegates to
> application specific providers...
>
>
> That would ultimately be what's needed. With that JSR 375 can install
> it's own provider for a single web app, just like it currently
> installs its own JASPIC SAM and then builds on top of that.
>
> JSR 375 could then provide its own API to provide access to the
> (in-memory) collection of permissions (like WebResourcePermission).
>
>
> but I view the problem at hand,
> as being where to put the replacement for the default java Policy
> implementation class.
>
>
> Indeed, that's problem number 1. As you may remember, I faced enormous
> difficulties installing this replacement on servers like Geronimo and
> JBoss.
>
> Closely related to that, it may be worth it to look into the
> possibility of defining a standard JACC factory anyway to install a
> global JACC provider from within a web app. After all, JASPIC also
> allows one to set a global SAM (by proving a null for the app context id).
>
> It might also be feasible to change JACC
> such that it uses an application scoped Policy object that is
> distinct from that used by the rest of the JRE, but at least on
> the surface
> that seems like a new version of JACC (or perhaps thats what JSR
> 375 is).
>
>
> JSR 375 definitely does not try to be JACC (or JASPIC for that
> matter). At least, that's what I (and Alex back then) are trying hard
> to avoid. What JSR 375 does attempt is first and foremost providing a
> higher level, ease of use, abstraction/wrapper on top of JASPIC and
> hopefully JACC.
>
> But as it stands, JSR 375 has a hard time "connecting" to JACC. At
> most JSR 375 could provide a JACC provider that loads and delegates to
> application specific providers, and then mandates that IFF JSR 375 is
> used and IFF "some kind" of configuration is encountered in the
> application, then the application server vendor must make sure this
> JSR 375 provided JACC provider is installed.
>
> But I'm not sure if this is really allowed, and if it's allowed I
> think it puts a great burden on the application server vendor who
> somehow has to make sure it works.
>
> I'd much rather use a portable API/SPI instead of demanding something
> in the spec text and then hope it turns out well in practice.
>
>
> Also, since JACC requires compatibility with the JRE security
> Policy replacement mechanism, so it may be feasible to adopt
> a uniform replacement strategy that is based on loading the
> classes from within the extension or lib area of the JRE. I am not
> sure
> if that would be acceptable
>
>
> JRE would be the absolute last resort. Java EE developers already
> dislike modifying the application server for a single application, but
> modifying the JRE is often a no go. The JRE on a developer's desktop
> often runs many different application servers and thus many different
> apps.
>
> Still, I tried putting the jar with the JACC provider there, and
> Geronimo and JBoss specifically still would not find it :(
>
> and am interested in hearing of any other ideas you may have as to
> defining where such (JRE-wide)
> provider jars could be loaded from.
>
>
> For Java EE this remains a difficult thing, as it typically tries to
> avoid going into product details. So stating that the server must
> provide a directory where it scans for the jar file is difficult I
> think, as is requiring that there's a product specific CLI or admin
> console function available that accepts a jar containing a JACC provider.
>
> That said any of the following would be an improvement:
>
> * Mandating JACC providers be loaded from the JRE's extension folder
> * Define a directory in the server, e.g. [glassfish home]/extensions
> * Define an extra system property that contains the path to jar. E.g.
> -Djavax.security.jacc.policy.provider.location=/opt/myprovider.jar
> * Define a new archive containing the JACC provider that can be
> deployed standalone or as part of an ear, just like .rar archives for JCA
> * Work with the EG for the new Java EE Management API to have them
> support the deployments of archives containing a JACC provider (but
> this EG is rather quiet at the moment)
> * Define a factory that applications can use to register the JACC
> provider, just like applications can do for a JASPIC SAM.
>
> I somewhat ordered the list where latter items would IMHO be more
> desirable solutions.
>
> Kind regards,
> Arjan Tijms
>
>
>
>
>
> Ron
>
>
> On 7/2/16 4:04 PM, arjan tijms wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>> Thanks for starting this discussion. The current way to register
>> a JACC provider is indeed too difficult . This was discussed a
>> while ago as well, see
>> https://java.net/projects/jacc-spec/lists/users/archive/2015-03/message/0
>>
>> In the current climate, a MR is not the easiest thing,
>> unfortunately. Ron, what do you think?
>>
>> Alternatively, JSR 375 could provide a standard compliant JACC
>> provider and then *demand* Java EE implementations to have this
>> install by default. I don't know if this is feasible. Again a
>> question to Ron; would you think this is reasonable or even
>> allowed for a JSR to do?
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Arjan Tijms
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 2, 2016 at 8:25 PM, Guillermo González de Agüero
>> <z06.guillermo_at_gmail.com <mailto:z06.guillermo_at_gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I need to register my own JACC provider to change the default
>> security behaviour of my application. Problem there's no
>> standard mecanism to register a custom provider, and
>> moreover, vendor specific mechanisms are incredibly difficult
>> to use[1].
>>
>> I would like to have an option to register a custom JACC
>> provider from a web module, just like we can already register
>> a SAM. This could be a workaround for [2] and would
>> facilitate JSR375 Security Spec to provide a more integrated
>> solution.
>>
>> This change should be done in a MR and included in Java EE 8.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Guillermo González de Agüero.
>>
>> [1]
>> http://arjan-tijms.omnifaces.org/2015/01/java-ee-authorization-jacc-revisited.html
>> [2] https://java.net/jira/browse/SERVLET_SPEC-157
>>
>>
>
>