Hi Kristian,Thank you for your input related to my post.Let me try to make some things more clear to work out our differences if we have them :)
Let's try to analyze what you are saying here with open mind.
> eventually, the kind of "reward" making things interesting to
The key word here is "eventually" and in my opinion the word means - something could happen someday.
That is not a thing developer can count on in his business.
> FishCAT is pretty attractive not because its points/scoring system or> some public attention to achieve, but rather because I can provide> feedback on issues that nag me once in a while and I have a more> "straight connection" to people who could eventually hear me and change> these things rather than just posting to an end-user mailing list to> wait for something to happen...
Again the word "eventually" kill my interest to participate actively instantly.Beside this your hope to make direct connections is not scalable at all.I mean if only a few people participating in Fishcats then your plan could work but the program itself will be failure.We need to establish reliable way to get benefits from participating in this program.
> On the other side however, providing people> with "reward" for quantity of bugs filed doesn't seem a smart idea as> it doesn't say anything about quality of bug filed (duplicates, simple> misconfiguration issues, ...).
It's easy one to fix. The issue filler will get some score only after review and confirmation from quality engineer from Oracle.
> In my testing of gfv3, I didn't really> run into any serious issues worth reporting so I don't get points for> filing any. Should a testing reward motivate people to file "much", or> should it motivate to provide _good_ feedback? :)
That why I'm suggesting to make virtual currency instead of plain points.You will be able to earn the currency in many ways. For example helping on forums, suggesting new features, making demo or promoting the product. I will describe in details how it should work in the document that I will have prepared by Monday.
If virtual currency idea will not get support then we should ask Richard to rename points to stickers and beg his daughter to provide us with some amount of them :)
> I trust in the idea of growing a lot of motivation out of enthusiasm -> for a technology, for a project, for a community. Asides anything else,> Sun did _rather_ good at that
Sun had problems in this respect. Just a couple examples to prove my view.Dukes that developers could earn on the forums didn't have any power and didn't provide any real incentive to developers who earned them. Voting points for project issues also was completely useless.
>growing a lot of motivation out of enthusiasm
Honestly it's a new conception for me. I don't see it's working anywhere and I have a perfect vision now after lasik surgery :)Let me again to prove my point.Author of "Firebug" if I remember correctly worked on his product at least one year. One day he asked for supporting his work or he couldn't continue it in the same way as before.I don't really know what kind of support he got from developers but I definitely know that he dropped his work on the project.You probably know that Firebug actively in use by millions of developers.
Kristian, please think again about motivation engine.We definitely need some kind of plan on this as soon as possible.Maybe we should create a couple wiki pages related to this topic or write a blog on Glassfish site.
Sincerely,Vladimir
> Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 09:11:36 +0200
> From: rink_at_planconnect.de
> To: quality_at_glassfish.dev.java.net
> Subject: Re: Request for comments : FishCAT, the way forward
>
> Folks;
>
>
> Am Thu, 24 Jun 2010 09:02:26 +0200
> schrieb Richard Kolb <rjdkolb_at_dev.java.net>:
> > > In my opinion FishCat points don't provide any serious level of
> > > motivation.
> > > I would say this kind of motivation could works only in
> > > kindergarten :)
> >
> > lol, you are right. My 18 month old daughter gets stickers ;-)
>
> :]
>
> > Yes, I do understand and I think you make some good points.
> > And let's go into more detail ; perhaps we/you can write an official
> > proposal to the powers that be.
> > If we can prove return on investment , we have a winner I think.
>
> Indeed, and this will be rather difficult in my opinion. And,
> eventually, the kind of "reward" making things interesting to
> users/testers might drastically differ. In example, in my special case,
> FishCAT is pretty attractive not because its points/scoring system or
> some public attention to achieve, but rather because I can provide
> feedback on issues that nag me once in a while and I have a more
> "straight connection" to people who could eventually hear me and change
> these things rather than just posting to an end-user mailing list to
> wait for something to happen...
>
> In my opinion, I think rewards based upon activity are a double-edged
> sword. On one side, of course, providing people with some return for
> doing something is good. On the other side however, providing people
> with "reward" for quantity of bugs filed doesn't seem a smart idea as
> it doesn't say anything about quality of bug filed (duplicates, simple
> misconfiguration issues, ...). In my testing of gfv3, I didn't really
> run into any serious issues worth reporting so I don't get points for
> filing any. Should a testing reward motivate people to file "much", or
> should it motivate to provide _good_ feedback? :)
>
>
> > > In the past I had a brief discussion with Judy regarding this topic
> > > and she was supportive on this. But that time Oracle was taking
> > > over Sun Microsystem and it wasn't very appropriate time to go
> > > further with it. Now I see again some understanding that people
> > > need to be motivated to do some testing so I'm bringing it up.
> >
> > Yes, motivation is the key here and not an easy topic at all. :)
>
>
> I trust in the idea of growing a lot of motivation out of enthusiasm -
> for a technology, for a project, for a community. Asides anything else,
> Sun did _rather_ good at that, looking at the various communities that
> used to exist. Hope Oracle will keep this up. ;)
>
> K.
>
>
> --
> Dipl.-Ing.(BA) Kristian Rink * Software- und Systemingenieur
> planConnect GmbH * Könneritzstr. 33 * 01067 Dresden
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