[jpa-spec users] [jsr338-experts] Re: clarification about use of "immediately" word in describing 3.6.1 Automatic Validation Upon Lifecycle Events

From: Linda DeMichiel <>
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 11:31:34 -0700

On 4/20/2012 8:39 AM, Scott Marlow wrote:
> I'm exactly sure how the word "immediately" applies in section 3.6.1, where we describe when the validation will happen
> after lifecycle events.
> If the application calls EntityManager.persist() and then calls EntityManager.flush(). Then sometime later the jta
> transaction commits. What if the pre-persist is triggered as part of em.persist() but the validation happens during
> em.flush or commit (before completion)?

PrePersist validation is supposed to occur at the same time as the PrePersist callback methods after all
of the callbacks methods have been invoked--i.e., before persist(). PostPersist validation may happen at
the end of the transaction, but I don't understand your question about PrePersist validation happening then.

> How does the term "immediately" apply in this context and why is that a requirement?

Well, for one thing, assuming the application has invoked persist(), it gives it a deterministic point
at which to catch any validation errors.

> Current text from 2.1:
> "
> 3.6.1 Automatic Validation Upon Lifecycle Events
> This specification supports the use of bean validation for the automatic validation of entities upon the pre-persist,
> pre-update, and pre-remove lifecycle validation events. These lifecycle validation events occur immediately after the
> point at which all the PrePersist, PreUpdate, and PreRemove lifecycle callback method invocations respectively have been
> completed, or immediately after the point at which such lifecycle callback methods would have been completed (in the
> event that such callback methods are not present).
> In the case where an entity is persisted and subsequently modified in a single transaction or when an entity is modified
> and subsequently removed in a single transaction, it is implementation dependent as to whether the pre-update validation
> event occurs. Portable applications should not rely on this behavior.
> "
> Scott