jsr343-experts@jms-spec.java.net

[jsr343-experts] Re: (JMS_SPEC-7) Provide HTTP Binding

From: John D. Ament <john.d.ament_at_gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2012 19:36:08 -0500

A REST interface is exactly what I was thinking of with this issue. It
could be worded in such a way that:

1. If a JAX-RS provider is available within the container
2. and <<some to be determined configuration is set, perhaps per
application or even app server level >>

Then JAX-RS integration will be available for JMS.

Just need to figure out what the expected parameters would be, the content,
types, etc. It may make sense for this to be application level - and
provide a configuration API to specify types available at what endpoints.

John

On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 6:17 AM, Nigel Deakin <nigel.deakin_at_oracle.com>wrote:

> Sastry,
>
> Thanks for your comments.
>
> As you say, stateful JMS concepts such as connections and sessions are
> difficult to express in a HTTP/REST interface. The same applies to the JMS
> concepts of transactions and client acknowledgement.
>
> Were you thinking of a HTTP/REST interface which mapped onto a subset of
> existing JMS functionality (e.g. no message order guarantees, no
> transactions) or do yo think we need to define some new concepts in JMS
> which map more easily to a internet environment, such as new QoS options?
>
> You also mention "embedded mode". Can you clarify what you mean by this,
> and what kind of changes would be needed to make JMS "embeddable mode"
> friendly?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nigel
>
>
>
> On 05/03/2012 07:16, Sastry Malladi wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I'm sorry for being silent so far on the mailing list. I've recently
> joined the expert group (in Jan) - I'm am an Architect at eBay driving the
> eBay middleware platform, including
> a next gen messaging platform.
>
> In the internet world, the messaging systems tend to serve a more
> "disconnected world" - meaning that there is no concept of a "connection"
> or "session" to the broker - Applications just publish and receive messages
> (millions of them) at will, with different QoS and delivery channels.
> These applications are also typically polyglot (written in multiple
> different languages) and almost always use HTTP/REST to communicate,
> although the likes of SPDY and Websockets are also partly in use and
> upcoming.
>
> Although this JSR is for Java API for messaging, I'd still strongly
> request you to consider including an HTTP, more importantly a simple REST
> interface to the messaging API, for wider adoption. We don't have to make
> implementing the REST interface mandatory for compliance, but I bet most
> providers will implement, as the world is moving towards that direction.
> This is what we are doing as well. The REST service implementation may
> choose to use the underlying Java API in embedded mode, so we need to make
> sure the Java API is "embeddable mode" friendly.
>
> thanks,
> Sastry
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Nigel Deakin <nigel.deakin_at_oracle.com> <nigel.deakin_at_oracle.com>
> *To:* jsr343-experts_at_jms-spec.java.net
> *Sent:* Friday, March 2, 2012 8:44 AM
> *Subject:* [jsr343-experts] (JMS_SPEC-7) Provide HTTP Binding
>
> I refer to this JIRA issue logged by fribeiro in June 2011.
>
> Provide HTTP Binding
> http://java.net/jira/browse/JMS_SPEC-7
>
> "If none is available from another organization, I think the JCP should
> provide (maybe in a separate JSR) a standard HTTP binding for JMS, given
> how often these technologies are used together."
>
> A discussion took place in the comments on that issue between the proposer
> and various EG members. I'd like to bring that discussion to the EG
> properly so we can formally decide how to handle this.
>
> I think that this proposal is is essentially proposing that JMS defines
> some kind of HTTP binding (protocol, really) to a JMS provider. I can well
> imagine that this is a common requirement: I know at least two JMS
> providers that provide a HTTP protocol and I'm sure there are others.
>
> I think there are a number of issues here:
>
> 1. Whether a standard HTTP protocol to JMS is required
> 2. If so, whether it belongs in JMS or in some other specification
> 3. Whether there is scope to enhance the existing JMS (Java) API to make
> it easier to deliver a HTTP binding
>
> Defining a standard HTTP protocol sounds, on the face of it, a good idea.
> It would be necessary to decide what JMS features could be made available
> using HTTP - some, like message order or transactions, would probably rely
> on the concept of there being some kind of client state maintained between
> requests.
>
> Then there's the question of whether this is should be defined as part of
> JMS, as a separate JCP specification, or under the auspices of some other
> body.
>
> As a general rule the JCP is "for developing standard technical
> specifications for Java technology", but defining a HTTP protocol for JMS
> is certainly not out of the question. Some would probably recommend that
> it be defined at OASIS, or even IETF. But if it needs to align strongly
> with the Java API then that might be enough justification to develop it as
> part of JMS.
>
> We would need to consider what the compatibility requirements would be for
> the HTTP protocol? Would all JMS products be required to include a REST
> server that supported the protocol?
>
> We would also need to consider where the HTTP protocol would sit the JMS
> architecture. Would the JMS server support the HTTP protocol or would we
> be defining a separate server that accepted HTTP requests and translated
> them to the native network protocol for the JMS server, perhaps by just
> translating them into JMS API calls?
>
> My feeling is that we would never want to make it mandatory for a JMS
> provider to directly support the HTTP protocol, and that it should be
> possible to implement it as a separate component interfacing with the JMS
> provider using the standard JMS API (if it requires proprietary API then it
> isn't really a JMS binding). This suggests to me that this belongs in a
> separate JSR.
>
> I'm also mindful that this would be a significant piece of work and
> there's not going to be time to deliver in the JMS 2.0 timescales in any
> case.
>
> So my proposal is that we take the decision to not attempt to define a
> HTTP protocol for JMS 2.0. We can leave the issue open, but it is likely
> that a HTTP protocol would need to be delivered as a separate JSR.
>
> Discussion welcome.
>
> Now let's consider the point (3) above, whether there is scope to enhance
> the existing JMS (Java) API to make it easier to deliver a HTTP binding. I
> think the answer to this is definitely yes, and we welcome proposals. (I
> think we already have one in JMS_SPEC-5, which we'll discuss separately,
> and there may be others).
>
> Nigel
>
>
>