Just for the record, I too would like JAXB available as a separate package.
I agree with some of your reasoning. I simply wanted to make the case that
it's not necessarily just a "marketing issue".
It seems like one approach Sun could take would be to make some of the JAX
packages available both as a bundle of "tested together" technologies, like
a framework, and then "component technologies" that are faster moving, a bit
more on the bleeding edge. At least while these techs are young, to give
them time to shape themselves during this crucial period.
On the other hand, Sun has often bundled outside technologies into a single
"megapack"...namely, the SDK. Consider stuff like Swing. Well, pretty much
anything javax. I mean, you could make arguments that each of those
subpackages should be released independently. The problem is, if you do
that you start getting a lot of specific configurations that don't work
right together, and that translates into confusion and a bad image for Java
itself.
I'm just saying both approaches have some merit. My personal opinion is
that while JAXB is young, it should be available as a separate download, and
then maybe later "hard-integrated" into JWSDP.
It really is going to be a hassle for those of us developing applications
that don't really need the whole JWSDP. We're going to have to require a
pretty massive download to use our application, and most of it will be stuff
that we don't even use. That's crummy.
As a side note, to Les...Java isn't actually "open source". It has source
that you can read, yes, but "open source" means anybody can change it, which
isn't true for Java. For more information, see:
http://www.opensource.org/docs/definition.php
-Brandon
Thought River South
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Sosnoski" <dms_at_sosnoski.com>
To: <JAXB-INTEREST_at_JAVA.SUN.COM>
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2003 10:39 AM
Subject: Re: Specified conversion customization is not used.
> Still sounds like a marketing issue to me. Especially since it bundles
> together reference implementations such as JAXB, which is presumably
> meant to be used directly, along with ones such as JAX-RPC. I personally
> wouldn't recommend that anyone use the JAX-RPC reference implementation
> when more fully-featured (and open source) implementations such as
> Apache Axis are available.
>
> One of the big advantages of Java technologies to me is that they've
> always been fairly modular. You can pick and choose the components and
> implementations you want to use, without getting dragged into a huge
> .NET-like infrastructure of interrelated APIs. JWSDP seems like an
> attempt to supply the equivalent of the .NET SDK for Java. I don't have
> any objection to doing this, but I believe Java developers would be
> better served by also making the technologies available separately. This
> is especially true when it comes to pre-release testing.
>
> - Dennis
>
> Brandon Franklin wrote:
>
> >Hi Dennis. You are not alone in your concern, but Sun does in fact seem
to
> >have a technology-driven reason for the bundling. Ryan addressed this
> >question in the recent Java Live chat, which you can view the log of at
this
> >URL:
>
>http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/community/chat/JavaLive/2003/jl0422
.
> >html
> >
> >I'll go ahead and quote the relevant portion here. The question was
asked
> >by Brian Franklin:
> >
> >Brian Franklin: [...various unrelated points removed...] Will the next
> >version of JAXB be released only when the next version of the Java WSDP
is
> >released, or can we expect separate interim releases?
> >
> >Ryan Shoemaker: Excellent points, Brian. To answer your question, the
> >release vehicle for JAXB will continue to be the Java WSDP.
> >
> >Brian Franklin: I have to say I'm disappointed by that. The Java WSDP
> >contains 10 different technology packages. It seems unfortunate to have
to
> >wait for all of them to be synchronized for release. Particularly since
it
> >might hamper increased growth and code improvement for early version
> >technologies like JAXB, contrasted with more mature releases like JAXP.
> >
> >Ryan Shoemaker: I understand your concern, but we are working very hard
to
> >make sure that the Java WSDP releases are timely and contain incremental
> >improvements in the component technologies. The Java WSDP certainly will
be
> >revved much faster than J2SE, for example. In the coming months and
years,
> >we will be revving all of our XML and Web Services technologies. Some of
> >them will be built on JAXB, and JAXB at some point in the future may make
> >use of others (mostly in the parser area). We felt it was important to
> >package together the latest, greatest set of technologies that were
tested
> >together and worked together. For instance, we hope that in the future,
> >JAX-RPC will be completely layered on JAXB. So we wanted to establish a
> >pattern of releasing them together as a tested unit. We also realized
that
> >some people would not want all the technologies, so we tried to make it
very
> >clear how to separate out just the technologies you were interested in.
This
> >was a big change from the previous release of the Java WSDP.
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Dennis Sosnoski" <dms_at_sosnoski.com>
> >To: <JAXB-INTEREST_at_JAVA.SUN.COM>
> >Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2003 7:05 AM
> >Subject: Re: Specified conversion customization is not used.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>This very closed approach to the reference implementation seems to be
> >>creating a lot of problems. I think it'd make a lot more sense to (1)
> >>provide public beta builds rather than just dumping out code that's only
> >>been tested internally to Sun, and (2) release JAXB independent of the
> >>Web services pack, with which it currently has only a tenuous connection
> >>at best.
> >>
> >>We've seen *many* bugs in the FCS code that would have been caught in a
> >>release candidate build after the original beta. Hopefully there isn't
> >>as much new code going into the next version, but a beta or release
> >>candidate build would really help improve the quality.
> >>
> >>Tying JAXB to JWSDP seems like some sort of marketing-driven issue.
> >>Clumping together a bunch of separate XML and servlet related
> >>technologies and calling them a "Web Services Development Pack" doesn't
> >>really help developers much, though. JAXB would be much better off if
> >>released as a separate API, though it could still be included in the
> >>JWSDP bundle.
> >>
> >> - Dennis
> >>
> >>Ryan Shoemaker - JavaSoft East wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Unfortunately, the fix is in an internal build that will not be
publicly
> >>>available until the next version of JWSDP ships which will be "soon" -
> >>>I'm
> >>>sorry that I can't be more specific than that.
> >>>
> >>>--Ryan
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
>