From: Werner Keil <werner.keil_at_gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2014 11:50:17 +0200

Many of these topics sound more like they belong on the EE 7/8 mailing list
btw[?]

Werner

On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 11:15 AM, <users-request_at_jax-rs-spec.java.net> wrote:

> Table of contents:
>
> 1. [jax-rs-spec users] Swagger like standared for jax-rs ? - <
> rajmahendra_at_gmail.com>
> 2. [jax-rs-spec users] Re: Swagger like standared for jax-rs ? - Thamizh
> Arasu <zarub2k_at_gmail.com>
> 3. [jax-rs-spec users] [jsr339-experts] Re: Re: MVC - Marek Potociar <
> marek.potociar_at_oracle.com>
> 4. [jax-rs-spec users] Re: Digest for list users_at_jax-rs-spec.java.net -
> Werner Keil <werner.keil_at_gmail.com>
> 5. [jax-rs-spec users] [jsr339-experts] Re: Re: MVC - Bill Burke <
> bburke_at_redhat.com>
> 6. [jax-rs-spec users] AsyncTask in JAX-RS - Frans Thamura <
> frans_at_meruvian.org>
> 7. [jax-rs-spec users] Hypermedia for structural links - Ivan Junckes
> Filho <ivanjunckes_at_gmail.com>
> 8. [jax-rs-spec users] Re: Hypermedia for structural links - Santiago
> Pericas-Geertsen <Santiago.PericasGeertsen_at_oracle.com>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: <rajmahendra_at_gmail.com>
> To: users_at_jax-rs-spec.java.net
> Cc:
> Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 09:22:24 +0000 (UTC)
> Subject: [jax-rs-spec users] Swagger like standared for jax-rs ?
> I just came across this api http://swagger.wordnik.com/ .. provides
> documentation for rest... any plan to have in future jax-rs ?
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Thamizh Arasu <zarub2k_at_gmail.com>
> To: users_at_jax-rs-spec.java.net
> Cc:
> Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 15:13:21 +0530
> Subject: [jax-rs-spec users] Re: Swagger like standared for jax-rs ?
> Hi Raj,
> Thanks for the topic. I have already posted a related query few days back
> in the same discussion thread. May be you can go through the details below (
> https://java.net/projects/jax-rs-spec/lists/users/archive/2014-05/message/21
> ).
>
> I am very much interested to build a library around this. If this can be
> part of the specification I would be happy :)
>
> Thanks,
> Tham
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 2:52 PM, <rajmahendra_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I just came across this api http://swagger.wordnik.com/ .. provides
>> documentation for rest... any plan to have in future jax-rs ?
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Thanks,
> Thamizharsu S
>
> JUG Chennai:
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/chennai.jug/
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/jugchennai
>
> Personal:
> https://github.com/zarub2k
> https://github.com/ChennaiDartisans
> https://plus.google.com/u/0/communities/105641070038373143245
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Marek Potociar <marek.potociar_at_oracle.com>
> To: jsr339-experts_at_jax-rs-spec.java.net
> Cc:
> Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 12:58:15 +0200
> Subject: [jax-rs-spec users] [jsr339-experts] Re: Re: MVC
> Hi Bill,
>
> Now we already do know a few things that you do not like to see in
> JAX-RS.next. I would however also would like to know what are the things
> that you would like to see in JAX-RS.next?
>
> Cheers,
> Marek
>
> On 30 May 2014, at 21:11, Bill Burke <bburke_at_redhat.com> wrote:
>
> > On 5/23/2014 4:36 AM, Sergey Beryozkin wrote:
> >> Hi
> >> On 22/05/14 22:05, Santiago Pericas-Geertsen wrote:
> >>> Dear Experts,
> >>>
> >>> As you may have seen in the Java EE 8 survey, there was significant
> >>> interest in adding an MVC framework to the platform in EE 8. After
> >>> some analysis, we are convinced that the best place for this work is
> >>> in JAX-RS.next. In fact, as many of you may recall, this was on our
> >>> list for JAX-RS 2.0 but we've never got a chance to discuss it in any
> >>> detail.
> >>>
> >>> I'm aware of some discussion in the JSF alias in relation to MVC in
> >>> general, and its support as part of JAX-RS in particular. I plan to
> >>> send an e-mail to the JSF alias as a way to establish a liaison
> >>> between the two groups. I believe their expertise would be of great
> >>> value for us and will help us design a framework that addresses the
> >>> requirements of the EE community.
> >>>
> >> Look forward to JAX-RS supporting MVC and SSE. As far as the future
> >> JAX-RS MVC is concerned, I hope it will not only target EE users though
> >> :-). i.e, it would work even if no JSF is available, but of course the
> >> input from JSF experts will be of great interest.
> >> Using Jersey MVC as a template would be a nice start IMHO, we have a
> >> less involved support for it, but I think it is close enough to the way
> >> Jersey does it in some cases.
> >>
> >
> > I am 100% against MVC in JAX-RS. Are we really going to introduce a
> legacy and now defunct pattern to JAX-RS? The trend and future is Angular
> JS or GWT apps with simple RESTful back ends.
> >
> > This is wrong guys. You will regret adding and it will end up on the
> long list of Java EE features that nobody uses and bloat we'll have to
> support.
> >
> > SSE and now MVC, I'm really disappointed in the direction of JAX-RS.
> >
> > --
> > Bill Burke
> > JBoss, a division of Red Hat
> > http://bill.burkecentral.com
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Werner Keil <werner.keil_at_gmail.com>
> To: users_at_jax-rs-spec.java.net
> Cc:
> Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 12:59:59 +0200
> Subject: [jax-rs-spec users] Re: Digest for list
> users_at_jax-rs-spec.java.net
> Arjan,
>
> Thanks for detailed messages. It makes sense to align JSF with that and
> regarding MVC I mentioned, that the "Flowlet" features in Java EE 7 already
> used JSF primarily.
> Angular and all those other .JS frameworks or libraries are not only
> client-based, but aside from small Java or other parts they usually share
> the same scripting language (JavaScript) both on the client and server
> side. This may be a nice PoC and in some cases (when you require little or
> no actual "Business Logic" in an Enterprise scale) it may even work on the
> server side, but while quick (and dirty[?]) in many cases, few of those
> proof to be as scalable as let's say Java EE.
>
> In an Internet of Things era, you may see "semi-smart" servers or Embedded
> containers (which is why I hate the term "Embedded" in the EE 8 context,
> creates too much ambiguity in a Java Ecosystem where ME, SE and EE grow
> seemlessly together already[?]) with a certain level of semantic
> intelligence to handle sensor readings, business transactions from "Edge
> Node", etc. these "Node" or "Angular" systems seem appropriate to gather
> Small or Medium sized Data, but what's more often called BigData will
> remain the domain of "Big Enterprise Systems" and you won't see that change
> I am pretty sure.
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Werner Keil | JCP Executive Committee Member, JSR 363 Co Spec Lead |
> Eclipse UOMo Lead, Babel Language Champion | Apache Committer
>
> Twitter @wernerkeil | @UnitAPI | @JSR354 | #EclipseUOMo | #Java_Social |
> #DevOps
> Skype werner.keil | Google+ gplus.to/wernerkeil
>
> On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 11:15 AM, <users-request_at_jax-rs-spec.java.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Table of contents:
>>
>> 1. [jax-rs-spec users] Re: [jsr339-experts] MVC - arjan tijms <
>> arjan.tijms_at_gmail.com>
>> 2. [jax-rs-spec users] Re: [jsr339-experts] Re: MVC - arjan tijms <
>> arjan.tijms_at_gmail.com>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: arjan tijms <arjan.tijms_at_gmail.com>
>> To: users_at_jax-rs-spec.java.net
>> Cc:
>> Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 00:46:17 +0200
>> Subject: [jax-rs-spec users] Re: [jsr339-experts] MVC
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 11:05 PM, Santiago Pericas-Geertsen <
>> Santiago.PericasGeertsen_at_oracle.com> wrote:
>>
>>> As you may have seen in the Java EE 8 survey, there was significant
>>> interest in adding an MVC framework to the platform in EE 8. After some
>>> analysis, we are convinced that the best place for this work is in
>>> JAX-RS.next. In fact, as many of you may recall, this was on our list for
>>> JAX-RS 2.0 but we've never got a chance to discuss it in any detail.
>>
>>
>> First of all I like to mention I really like JAX-RS as it is and have
>> been using the technology for pretty much every web service that I've
>> implemented.
>>
>> However, I'm not a really big fan of the current plans of adding MVC and
>> SSE to it. Combined with the fact that JAX-RS still has its own injection
>> (@Context) despite a platform standard for this and some of its own
>> security types (e.g. SecurityContext) that could have been useful for the
>> entire platform, I fear that users might increasingly get the feeling that
>> JAX-RS is a kind of full stack framework itself. With JAX-RS being a part
>> of Java EE which is a full stack framework, I'm not sure if we aren't
>> confusing users with such a setup.
>>
>> The question is also why specifically a RESTful web services framework
>> should be extended with an MVC framework. Web services are about doing a
>> very specific thing and I have a feeling that an MVC web framework is not
>> exactly that thing. I guess people might frown about the idea of
>> introducing an MVC web framework into JAX-WS, but what is really the
>> difference between those two? Why would it be acceptable to add an MVC
>> framework to one type of web services framework, but not to the other?
>>
>> As an extreme and obviously not realistic example, but wouldn't it also
>> be somewhat similar to extending EJB with an MVC framework in such a way
>> that e.g. rendered pixels or even high level graphics commands for some
>> toolkit are sent over the @Remote RMI/IIOP connection?
>>
>> One explanation that I've seen (in the SSE thread) is that JAX-RS should
>> be extended with the MVC framework because it has such a modern and nice to
>> use @Path annotation for routing URL requests, as compared to Servlets
>> which only has the more primitive @WebServlet with rather crude URL
>> patterns. If that is indeed the case, couldn't it be a possible alternative
>> to take the @Path annotation out of JAX-RS and separate it into its own
>> spec dedicated to URL routing? (e.g. the URL routing JSR). That way the
>> entire platform (specifically Servlet and JSF) could use the advanced URL
>> routing and path/parameter extraction features and there might not be a
>> need anymore to increase the size of a web services framework with an MVC
>> framework.
>>
>> Things like this have been done before, e.g. EL was separated from JSP
>> and JSF, and persistence was separated from EJB (as JPA).
>>
>> There's obviously much to discuss at a technical level concerning how JSF
>> can take advantage of action oriented concepts and in what way this could
>> be implemented best, but perhaps we should focus first on the question of
>> whether it's really a good idea or even needed to do any part of this
>> specifically in JAX-RS?
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Arjan Tijms
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: arjan tijms <arjan.tijms_at_gmail.com>
>> To: users_at_jax-rs-spec.java.net
>> Cc:
>> Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 01:26:11 +0200
>> Subject: [jax-rs-spec users] Re: [jsr339-experts] Re: MVC
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 9:11 PM, Bill Burke wrote:
>>
>>> I am 100% against MVC in JAX-RS. Are we really going to introduce a
>>> legacy and now defunct pattern to JAX-RS? The trend and future is Angular
>>> JS or GWT apps with simple RESTful back ends.
>>
>>
>> I'm personally not of the opinion that AngularJs is the definite future.
>> While I appreciate its place in the toolset that's available to developers,
>> IMHO there are tradeoffs between a single-page application and individual
>> pages, and between JSON that after arrival on the client still needs to be
>> processed and transformed before it can be rendered vs ready-to-render
>> HTML. But, while an interesting discussion itself, this might not be the
>> best place to discuss it ;)
>>
>> However, what is interesting here is that the action oriented pattern
>> (and then as it seems more or less specifically in the way that Spring MVC
>> implements it) is just one of the many approaches.
>>
>> Obviously component based (MVC with pull semantics) has a big share of
>> fans, as JSF often ranks highly in surveys and sees much activity on e.g.
>> SO. As one of the developers of the OmniFaces library for JSF I often get
>> feedback that people like the work we do and like working with JSF. The
>> pattern also has a couple of other representatives like Wicket and
>> Tapestry, which each have their own share of fans as well.
>>
>> But as Bill points out here, there's also AngularJS and with it a whole
>> slew of client-side frameworks like it (in fact, there seems to be a new
>> one every few weeks). Clearly this approach has its following just as well.
>>
>> Then there's yet another model which is about largely abstracting from
>> HTTP and HTML and building web UIs with pure Java in a style similar to
>> Swing/AWT/SWT etc. I'm not too familiar with Vaadin, but if I'm not
>> mistaken it's of this category.
>>
>> Next to that there are some things like Node.js, which focus on
>> asynchronous processing above all.
>>
>> What I not rarely see is that fans of one approach dislike the other
>> approaches, and in some cases may be very vocal about it. Maybe it's from
>> this advocacy that the feeling has arisen that Java EE needs an "MVC"
>> framework (actually "action oriented" framework). But if this is indeed
>> added to Java EE, wouldn't the next advocacy group ask for a Vaadin clone?
>> And then for a Node.js clone, etc? Where does this end? Java EE including
>> clones of each and every type of other framework?
>>
>> While I think it can definitely be worthwhile to investigate how JSF can
>> further benefit from action oriented concepts (i.e. in the way that e.g.
>> Scala married functional and object oriented concepts), I'm not sure it's
>> really the best idea to have one or even more standalone (as in: fully
>> separated from JSF) additional web frameworks in Java EE.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Arjan Tijms
>>
>> End of digest for list users_at_jax-rs-spec.java.net - Mon, 02 Jun 2014
>>
>>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Bill Burke <bburke_at_redhat.com>
> To: jsr339-experts_at_jax-rs-spec.java.net
> Cc:
> Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2014 08:32:16 -0400
> Subject: [jax-rs-spec users] [jsr339-experts] Re: Re: MVC
> So far I just have little things that I've run into over the past year:
>
> * Basic Auth support in the client API
> * Allow ContainerRequestContext and ContainerResponseContext to be
> injectable via @Context.
> * add method for obtaining client IP address to ContainerRequestContext
> * Injectable ContainerRequestContext allows properties to be viewed/set in
> JAX-RS methods
> * Injectable ContainerResponseContext allows Locators to add things like
> cookies to the response.
> * Some standard way of doing a forward like in Servlet spec.
> * Allow filters to be bindable via a @Path expression.
> * @Context should work directly with application class. i.e. you should
> be able to inject
>
> class MyApplication extends Application {}
>
> via
>
> @Context MyApplication app;
>
>
>
> On 6/2/2014 6:58 AM, Marek Potociar wrote:
>
>> Hi Bill,
>>
>> Now we already do know a few things that you do not like to see in
>> JAX-RS.next. I would however also would like to know what are the things
>> that you would like to see in JAX-RS.next?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Marek
>>
>> On 30 May 2014, at 21:11, Bill Burke <bburke_at_redhat.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 5/23/2014 4:36 AM, Sergey Beryozkin wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi
>>>> On 22/05/14 22:05, Santiago Pericas-Geertsen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear Experts,
>>>>>
>>>>> As you may have seen in the Java EE 8 survey, there was significant
>>>>> interest in adding an MVC framework to the platform in EE 8. After
>>>>> some analysis, we are convinced that the best place for this work is
>>>>> in JAX-RS.next. In fact, as many of you may recall, this was on our
>>>>> list for JAX-RS 2.0 but we've never got a chance to discuss it in any
>>>>> detail.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm aware of some discussion in the JSF alias in relation to MVC in
>>>>> general, and its support as part of JAX-RS in particular. I plan to
>>>>> send an e-mail to the JSF alias as a way to establish a liaison
>>>>> between the two groups. I believe their expertise would be of great
>>>>> value for us and will help us design a framework that addresses the
>>>>> requirements of the EE community.
>>>>>
>>>>> Look forward to JAX-RS supporting MVC and SSE. As far as the future
>>>> JAX-RS MVC is concerned, I hope it will not only target EE users though
>>>> :-). i.e, it would work even if no JSF is available, but of course the
>>>> input from JSF experts will be of great interest.
>>>> Using Jersey MVC as a template would be a nice start IMHO, we have a
>>>> less involved support for it, but I think it is close enough to the way
>>>> Jersey does it in some cases.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I am 100% against MVC in JAX-RS. Are we really going to introduce a
>>> legacy and now defunct pattern to JAX-RS? The trend and future is Angular
>>> JS or GWT apps with simple RESTful back ends.
>>>
>>> This is wrong guys. You will regret adding and it will end up on the
>>> long list of Java EE features that nobody uses and bloat we'll have to
>>> support.
>>>
>>> SSE and now MVC, I'm really disappointed in the direction of JAX-RS.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Bill Burke
>>> JBoss, a division of Red Hat
>>> http://bill.burkecentral.com
>>>
>>
>>
> --
> Bill Burke
> JBoss, a division of Red Hat
> http://bill.burkecentral.com
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Frans Thamura <frans_at_meruvian.org>
> To: "users_at_jax-rs-spec.java.net" <users_at_jax-rs-spec.java.net>
> Cc:
> Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 19:51:17 +0700
> Subject: [jax-rs-spec users] AsyncTask in JAX-RS
> Hi All
>
> what is the "equal" spec for AsyncTask in Android
> (android.os.asynctask) under JAX-RS
>
> and how the AsyncTask work with JAX-RS to guarrantee the connection
> send and receive between serverside JAXRS and Android or any JAXRS
> client.
>
> Frans
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Ivan Junckes Filho <ivanjunckes_at_gmail.com>
> To: users_at_jax-rs-spec.java.net
> Cc:
> Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 10:05:06 -0300
> Subject: [jax-rs-spec users] Hypermedia for structural links
> Hi guys!
>
> There is a lot of discussions around MVC and SSE right now, but one thing
> in my opinion that should be considered, and is very important to the JSR
> become more restful, is the standard implementation for hypermedia
> structural links.
>
> I would like to know your thoughts on that and if this could be added to
> jax-rs in a near future.
>
> Thank you.
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Santiago Pericas-Geertsen <Santiago.PericasGeertsen_at_oracle.com>
> To: users_at_jax-rs-spec.java.net
> Cc:
> Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 11:15:37 -0400
> Subject: [jax-rs-spec users] Re: Hypermedia for structural links
> Hello Ivan,
>
> Yes, improving hypermedia is part of the plan. JSON-B will likely be an
> addition to Java EE 8 as well, so we'll need to work with them on this.
>
> If you have any specific ideas or feedback on structural links in
> particular, don't hesitate to send them to this or the expert's alias.
>
> Thanks.
>
> -- Santiago
>
> On Jun 2, 2014, at 9:05 AM, Ivan Junckes Filho <ivanjunckes_at_gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi guys!
> >
> > There is a lot of discussions around MVC and SSE right now, but one
> thing in my opinion that should be considered, and is very important to the
> JSR become more restful, is the standard implementation for hypermedia
> structural links.
> >
> > I would like to know your thoughts on that and if this could be added to
> jax-rs in a near future.
> >
> > Thank you.
>
>
> End of digest for list users_at_jax-rs-spec.java.net - Tue, 03 Jun 2014
>
>