Well, #4 is what I would tell you.
If you need to pass data from one stateless view to the next I would
suggest either using the Flash, or request parameters.
Kind regards,
Manfred Riem
On 3/20/15, 12:47 PM, Kito Mann wrote:
> Hey Manfred,
>
> That makes sense to me. Perhaps you can answer my question, since you
> added stateless views to Mojarra before they were added to the spec.
> Is there a technical reason we can't associate view-scoped beans with
> a stateless view?
>
> On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 1:37 PM, manfred riem <manfred.riem_at_oracle.com
> <mailto:manfred.riem_at_oracle.com>> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Client side state saving does NOT save the view scoped beans in
> the view state.
>
> 4 important reasons why this is:
>
> 1. Alignment with the CDI version that stored them in the session
> in the first place.
> 2. Make @PreDestroy working properly.
> 3. Fixing inconsistency with respect to server side state saving.
> 4. Managed beans (in whatever scope) are NOT view state.
>
> Kind regards,
> Manfred Riem
>
>
>
> On 3/20/15, 12:22 PM, Kito Mann wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 1:15 PM, Bauke Scholtz <balusc_at_gmail.com
>> <mailto:balusc_at_gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> (I just noticed I accidentally hit "Reply" instead of "Reply
>> All", so here's the jsr372 again)
>>
>> This is not stateless, contradicting the MVC ideology.
>>
>>
>> Ok, so it's not stateless. Call it whatever you want. I still
>> don't see a technical reason that view-scoped beans can't be
>> associated with "stateless" views.
>>
>>
>> You could perhaps look at how JSF does client side state saving.
>>
>>
>> I know how client-side state saving works. That's not what I'm
>> talking about.
>>
>> This way there's no state in server side and the views never
>> expire. This only requires everything in the view scoped bean
>> to be Serializable. You should also require an encryption key
>> configured on the server side to ensure security of the state
>> in hidden input.
>>
>> This also needs to be instructed to endusers with caution, or
>> they would put "too many" data in view scoped beans
>> (datatables!) which get serialized forth and back to client
>> which is inefficient, and then they would complain about
>> performance.
>>
>> Cheers, B
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 6:09 PM, Kito Mann
>> <kito.mann_at_virtua.com <mailto:kito.mann_at_virtua.com>> wrote:
>>
>> OK, let me clarify. I'm not talking about storing state
>> for the view (I realize I said "view state" in the
>> previous view). I'm just talking about having a way to
>> associate a backing bean with a particular view and to
>> keep that backing bean around as long as the view is
>> currently being accessed. So, to answer your questions:
>>
>> * Where do you want to store that state on server side?
>> Session? Application? Session, just as view-scoped beans
>> are stored today.
>>
>> * How do you want to keep track of closed/expired
>> views? This is less clear, since JSF wouldn't have a
>> chance to clean up view-scoped objects when the view
>> state is cleared. It would probably make sense to clear
>> the view scope if another view is loaded within the same
>> window.
>>
>> * What to do when user requests a view state which
>> doesn't exist anymore because the session or application
>> expired/restarted?
>>
>> If the session is expired, normal rules apply. If the app
>> is restarted, the session is dead unless it was
>> passivated, and if it was, the normal rules still apply.
>>
>> ___
>>
>> Kito D. Mann | @kito99 | Author, JSF in Action
>> Virtua, Inc. | http://www.virtua.com | JSF/Java EE
>> training and consulting
>> http://www.JSFCentral.com | @jsfcentral
>> +1 203-998-0403 <tel:%2B1%20203-998-0403>
>>
>> * Listen to the Enterprise Java Newscast: _http://
>> <http://blogs.jsfcentral.com/JSFNewscast/>enterprisejavanews.com
>> <http://ww.enterprisejavanews.com>_
>> * JSFCentral Interviews Podcast:
>> http://www.jsfcentral.com/resources/jsfcentralpodcasts/
>> * Sign up for the JSFCentral Newsletter:
>> http://oi.vresp.com/?fid=ac048d0e17
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 12:42 PM, Bauke Scholtz
>> <balusc_at_gmail.com <mailto:balusc_at_gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> To expand a bit on it: Where do you want to store
>> that state on server side? Session? Application? How
>> do you want to keep track of closed/expired views?
>> What to do when user requests a view state which
>> doesn't exist anymore because the session or
>> application expired/restarted?
>>
>> Cheers, B
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 5:36 PM, Bauke Scholtz
>> <balusc_at_gmail.com <mailto:balusc_at_gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> View scope requires state on server side.
>>
>> Cheers, B
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 4:19 PM, Kito Mann
>> <kito.mann_at_virtua.com
>> <mailto:kito.mann_at_virtua.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Bauke, I understand the difference between
>> MVC vs action/based frameworks. I wrote an
>> action-based framework right around the time
>> Struts came out, and I used Struts quite a
>> bit before I got into JSF. I've also worked
>> with Spring MVC a little. I'm also on the MVC
>> EG, which is where others brought up the idea
>> of a view scope for that framework.
>>
>> The point here is that if you define view
>> state as being tied to a particular session /
>> view id / window id, then I don't see a
>> reason you can't use that as as a mapping for
>> a view-scoped backing bean.
>>
>> ___
>>
>> Kito D. Mann | @kito99 | Author, JSF in Action
>> Virtua, Inc. | http://www.virtua.com |
>> JSF/Java EE training and consulting
>> http://www.JSFCentral.com | @jsfcentral
>> +1 203-998-0403 <tel:%2B1%20203-998-0403>
>>
>> * Listen to the Enterprise Java Newscast:
>> _http://
>> <http://blogs.jsfcentral.com/JSFNewscast/>enterprisejavanews.com
>> <http://ww.enterprisejavanews.com>_
>> * JSFCentral Interviews Podcast:
>> http://www.jsfcentral.com/resources/jsfcentralpodcasts/
>> * Sign up for the JSFCentral Newsletter:
>> http://oi.vresp.com/?fid=ac048d0e17
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 11:04 AM, Bauke
>> Scholtz <balusc_at_gmail.com
>> <mailto:balusc_at_gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> MVC is request/action based not component
>> based and therefore indeed inherently
>> stateless in server side perspective. If
>> MVC developer intends to have view state
>> in both server and client side, it should
>> be homegrown by manually carrying around
>> some view state identifier via request
>> parameter(s) to request scoped beans and
>> maintaining it in server side session (or
>> switch to component based MVC like JSF
>> which has already a builtin solution for
>> that, the view scope).
>>
>> Food for read and thought:
>> - http://stackoverflow.com/a/4804476
>> - http://stackoverflow.com/a/4424775
>> - http://stackoverflow.com/a/7031941
>>
>> Cheers, B
>>
>>
>> On 14:13, Fri, Mar 20, 2015 Kito Mann
>> <kito.mann_at_virtua.com
>> <mailto:kito.mann_at_virtua.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Ok, maybe I'm missing something here.
>> Aren't we discussing having
>> view-scoped beans for the MVC spec?
>> Aren't all views in MVC stateless?
>>
>> ___
>>
>> Kito D. Mann | @kito99 | Author, JSF
>> in Action
>> Virtua, Inc. | http://www.virtua.com
>> | JSF/Java EE training and consulting
>> http://www.JSFCentral.com | @jsfcentral
>> +1 203-998-0403 <tel:%2B1%20203-998-0403>
>>
>> * Listen to the Enterprise Java
>> Newscast: _http://
>> <http://blogs.jsfcentral.com/JSFNewscast/>enterprisejavanews.com
>> <http://ww.enterprisejavanews.com>_
>> * JSFCentral Interviews Podcast:
>> http://www.jsfcentral.com/resources/jsfcentralpodcasts/
>> * Sign up for the JSFCentral
>> Newsletter:
>> http://oi.vresp.com/?fid=ac048d0e17
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 9:09 AM,
>> manfred riem <manfred.riem_at_oracle.com
>> <mailto:manfred.riem_at_oracle.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Indeed that is correct.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Manfred
>>
>>
>> On 3/20/15, 8:05 AM, Bauke
>> Scholtz wrote:
>>> Because there's no means of a
>>> view state.
>>>
>>> Cheers, B
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 2:01 PM,
>>> Kito Mann <kito.mann_at_virtua.com
>>> <mailto:kito.mann_at_virtua.com>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> So, if that's the case, does
>>> anyone know why stateless
>>> views can't reference
>>> view-scoped beans?
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at
>>> 10:57 AM, arjan tijms
>>> <arjan.tijms_at_gmail.com
>>> <mailto:arjan.tijms_at_gmail.com>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at
>>> 3:18 PM, Kito Mann
>>> <kito.mann_at_virtua.com
>>> <mailto:kito.mann_at_virtua.com>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> As usual, the
>>> stateful nature of
>>> views is causing
>>> some issues in an
>>> app I'm working on.
>>> Is there any
>>> particular reason
>>> that @ViewScoped
>>> beans can't be used
>>> with stateless
>>> views? I think the
>>> only reason we have
>>> that limitation is
>>> because of where
>>> they are stored,
>>> which could be
>>> changed...
>>>
>>>
>>> If I'm not mistaken that
>>> location has already
>>> been changed, has it not?
>>>
>>> @ViewScoped beans used
>>> to be stored in the view
>>> state, which caused
>>> several timing issues.
>>> Since then it has been
>>> moved to the session.
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>> Arjan Tijms
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>>
>>> Kito D. Mann |
>>> @kito99 | Author,
>>> JSF in Action
>>> Virtua, Inc. |
>>> http://www.virtua.com |
>>> JSF/Java EE training
>>> and consulting
>>> http://www.JSFCentral.com |
>>> @jsfcentral
>>> +1 203-998-0403
>>> <tel:%2B1%20203-998-0403>
>>>
>>> * Listen to the
>>> Enterprise Java
>>> Newscast: _http://
>>> <http://blogs.jsfcentral.com/JSFNewscast/>enterprisejavanews.com
>>> <http://ww.enterprisejavanews.com>_
>>> * JSFCentral
>>> Interviews Podcast:
>>> http://www.jsfcentral.com/resources/jsfcentralpodcasts/
>>> * Sign up for the
>>> JSFCentral
>>> Newsletter:
>>> http://oi.vresp.com/?fid=ac048d0e17
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>