On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 1:15 PM, Bauke Scholtz <balusc_at_gmail.com> wrote:
> (I just noticed I accidentally hit "Reply" instead of "Reply All", so
> here's the jsr372 again)
>
> This is not stateless, contradicting the MVC ideology.
>
Ok, so it's not stateless. Call it whatever you want. I still don't see a
technical reason that view-scoped beans can't be associated with
"stateless" views.
>
> You could perhaps look at how JSF does client side state saving.
>
I know how client-side state saving works. That's not what I'm talking
about.
This way there's no state in server side and the views never expire. This
> only requires everything in the view scoped bean to be Serializable. You
> should also require an encryption key configured on the server side to
> ensure security of the state in hidden input.
>
> This also needs to be instructed to endusers with caution, or they would
> put "too many" data in view scoped beans (datatables!) which get serialized
> forth and back to client which is inefficient, and then they would complain
> about performance.
>
> Cheers, B
>
> On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 6:09 PM, Kito Mann <kito.mann_at_virtua.com> wrote:
>
>> OK, let me clarify. I'm not talking about storing state for the view (I
>> realize I said "view state" in the previous view). I'm just talking about
>> having a way to associate a backing bean with a particular view and to keep
>> that backing bean around as long as the view is currently being accessed.
>> So, to answer your questions:
>>
>> * Where do you want to store that state on server side? Session?
>> Application? Session, just as view-scoped beans are stored today.
>>
>> * How do you want to keep track of closed/expired views? This is less
>> clear, since JSF wouldn't have a chance to clean up view-scoped objects
>> when the view state is cleared. It would probably make sense to clear the
>> view scope if another view is loaded within the same window.
>>
>> * What to do when user requests a view state which doesn't exist anymore
>> because the session or application expired/restarted?
>>
>> If the session is expired, normal rules apply. If the app is restarted,
>> the session is dead unless it was passivated, and if it was, the normal
>> rules still apply.
>>
>> ___
>>
>> Kito D. Mann | @kito99 | Author, JSF in Action
>> Virtua, Inc. | http://www.virtua.com | JSF/Java EE training and
>> consulting
>> http://www.JSFCentral.com | @jsfcentral
>> +1 203-998-0403
>>
>> * Listen to the Enterprise Java Newscast: *http://
>> <http://blogs.jsfcentral.com/JSFNewscast/>enterprisejavanews.com
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>>
>> On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 12:42 PM, Bauke Scholtz <balusc_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> To expand a bit on it: Where do you want to store that state on server
>>> side? Session? Application? How do you want to keep track of closed/expired
>>> views? What to do when user requests a view state which doesn't exist
>>> anymore because the session or application expired/restarted?
>>>
>>> Cheers, B
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 5:36 PM, Bauke Scholtz <balusc_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> View scope requires state on server side.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers, B
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 4:19 PM, Kito Mann <kito.mann_at_virtua.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Bauke, I understand the difference between MVC vs action/based
>>>>> frameworks. I wrote an action-based framework right around the time Struts
>>>>> came out, and I used Struts quite a bit before I got into JSF. I've also
>>>>> worked with Spring MVC a little. I'm also on the MVC EG, which is where
>>>>> others brought up the idea of a view scope for that framework.
>>>>>
>>>>> The point here is that if you define view state as being tied to a
>>>>> particular session / view id / window id, then I don't see a reason you
>>>>> can't use that as as a mapping for a view-scoped backing bean.
>>>>>
>>>>> ___
>>>>>
>>>>> Kito D. Mann | @kito99 | Author, JSF in Action
>>>>> Virtua, Inc. | http://www.virtua.com | JSF/Java EE training and
>>>>> consulting
>>>>> http://www.JSFCentral.com | @jsfcentral
>>>>> +1 203-998-0403
>>>>>
>>>>> * Listen to the Enterprise Java Newscast: *http://
>>>>> <http://blogs.jsfcentral.com/JSFNewscast/>enterprisejavanews.com
>>>>> <http://ww.enterprisejavanews.com>*
>>>>> * JSFCentral Interviews Podcast:
>>>>> http://www.jsfcentral.com/resources/jsfcentralpodcasts/
>>>>> * Sign up for the JSFCentral Newsletter:
>>>>> http://oi.vresp.com/?fid=ac048d0e17
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 11:04 AM, Bauke Scholtz <balusc_at_gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> MVC is request/action based not component based and therefore indeed
>>>>>> inherently stateless in server side perspective. If MVC developer intends
>>>>>> to have view state in both server and client side, it should be homegrown
>>>>>> by manually carrying around some view state identifier via request
>>>>>> parameter(s) to request scoped beans and maintaining it in server side
>>>>>> session (or switch to component based MVC like JSF which has already a
>>>>>> builtin solution for that, the view scope).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Food for read and thought:
>>>>>> - http://stackoverflow.com/a/4804476
>>>>>> - http://stackoverflow.com/a/4424775
>>>>>> - http://stackoverflow.com/a/7031941
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers, B
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 14:13, Fri, Mar 20, 2015 Kito Mann <kito.mann_at_virtua.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ok, maybe I'm missing something here. Aren't we discussing having
>>>>>>> view-scoped beans for the MVC spec? Aren't all views in MVC stateless?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ___
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Kito D. Mann | @kito99 | Author, JSF in Action
>>>>>>> Virtua, Inc. | http://www.virtua.com | JSF/Java EE training and
>>>>>>> consulting
>>>>>>> http://www.JSFCentral.com | @jsfcentral
>>>>>>> +1 203-998-0403
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * Listen to the Enterprise Java Newscast: *http://
>>>>>>> <http://blogs.jsfcentral.com/JSFNewscast/>enterprisejavanews.com
>>>>>>> <http://ww.enterprisejavanews.com>*
>>>>>>> * JSFCentral Interviews Podcast: http://www.jsfcentral.com/
>>>>>>> resources/jsfcentralpodcasts/
>>>>>>> * Sign up for the JSFCentral Newsletter: http://oi.vresp.
>>>>>>> com/?fid=ac048d0e17
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 9:09 AM, manfred riem <
>>>>>>> manfred.riem_at_oracle.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Indeed that is correct.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>>>> Manfred
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 3/20/15, 8:05 AM, Bauke Scholtz wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Because there's no means of a view state.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers, B
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 2:01 PM, Kito Mann <kito.mann_at_virtua.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So, if that's the case, does anyone know why stateless views can't
>>>>>>>>> reference view-scoped beans?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 10:57 AM, arjan tijms <
>>>>>>>>> arjan.tijms_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 3:18 PM, Kito Mann <kito.mann_at_virtua.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> As usual, the stateful nature of views is causing some issues in
>>>>>>>>>>> an app I'm working on. Is there any particular reason that @ViewScoped
>>>>>>>>>>> beans can't be used with stateless views? I think the only reason we have
>>>>>>>>>>> that limitation is because of where they are stored, which could be
>>>>>>>>>>> changed...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If I'm not mistaken that location has already been changed, has
>>>>>>>>>> it not?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> @ViewScoped beans used to be stored in the view state, which
>>>>>>>>>> caused several timing issues. Since then it has been moved to the session.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>>>>>> Arjan Tijms
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ___
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Kito D. Mann | @kito99 | Author, JSF in Action
>>>>>>>>>>> Virtua, Inc. | http://www.virtua.com | JSF/Java EE training and
>>>>>>>>>>> consulting
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.JSFCentral.com | @jsfcentral
>>>>>>>>>>> +1 203-998-0403 <%2B1%20203-998-0403>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> * Listen to the Enterprise Java Newscast: *http://
>>>>>>>>>>> <http://blogs.jsfcentral.com/JSFNewscast/>enterprisejavanews.com
>>>>>>>>>>> <http://ww.enterprisejavanews.com>*
>>>>>>>>>>> * JSFCentral Interviews Podcast: http://www.jsfcentral.com/
>>>>>>>>>>> resources/jsfcentralpodcasts/
>>>>>>>>>>> * Sign up for the JSFCentral Newsletter: http://oi.vresp.
>>>>>>>>>>> com/?fid=ac048d0e17
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>