From: Werner Keil <werner.keil_at_gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 11:04:29 +0200

A Giant Leap for JavaKind[?]

(R.I.P. Neil Armstrong, especially since he's been buried at sea just the
day our EC Meeting concludes next week)

On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 5:22 AM, Markus Eisele <myfear_at_web.de> wrote:

> Hi Antonio,
>
> thanks for pushing this! I am curious about the outcome. That would be a
> huge step forward!
>
> - M
>
>
> On 7 September 2012 00:59, Antonio Goncalves <antonio.goncalves_at_gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Bill, Linda, I have an interesting comment on my blog from Ceki Gülcü :
>> http://antoniogoncalves.org/2012/09/06/i-need-you-for-logging-api-spec-lead/#comment-1468
>>
>> *I don’t think conjuring a successful logging standard is going to be a
>> walk in the park. Do you know if Oracle/Sun would support this JSR?
>> *
>> I don't know if Ceki would be interested to be part or lead such a JSR
>> but he is asking if such an effort would be supported by Oracle. What is
>> your point of view on this ?
>>
>> Antonio
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 2:08 PM, Antonio Goncalves <
>> antonio.goncalves_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Well, you never know, someone out there might be interested :
>>> http://antoniogoncalves.org/2012/09/06/i-need-you-for-logging-api-spec-lead/
>>>
>>>
>>> Antonio
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 3:32 PM, Werner Keil <werner.keil_at_gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> The fact is, Log4J, SLF4J and Logback were all done at least partly by Ceki
>>>> Gülcü[?]
>>>> I haven't met him personally as I remember we were speaking at
>>>> different days on events like DevoXX, but I've been in touch with him since
>>>> investigating a unified logging strategy for several large telcos over the
>>>> last couple of years, most recently about a year ago in India.
>>>>
>>>> He's based in Switzerland, but I am not sure, if he is JCP Member or
>>>> interested in this kind of thing.
>>>>
>>>> If you could get his support or participation in a Logging JSR, this
>>>> sounds like a great idea, to get things right.
>>>> While it almost replicated some JavaEE aspects like JSF Bean Converters
>>>> (without JSF Context) and has a "light" version of JSR-310 somewhat similar
>>>> to the Fantom language (which as mentioned also offers modularity) JavaFX
>>>> currently has no Logging functionality other than most likely using JDK
>>>> Logging internally. A neutral and improved Logging JSR could therefore
>>>> benefit not only EE and App Servers, but also Rich Clients in JavaFX and
>>>> Mobile Solutions, if Java ever gains enough momentum there again...?[?]
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Werner Keil | JCP Executive Committee Member | Eclipse UOMo Lead
>>>>
>>>> Twitter @wernerkeil | #Java_Social | #EclipseUOMo | #OpenDDR
>>>> Skype werner.keil | Google+ gplus.to/wernerkeil
>>>>
>>>> * Chip-to-Cloud Security Forum: September 19 2012, Nice, French
>>>> Riviera. Werner Keil, JCP Executive Committee, JSR-321 EG Member will
>>>> present "Trusted Computing API for Java™"
>>>>
>>>> * Eclipse Day Delft: September 27 2012, Delft, Netherlands. Werner
>>>> Keil, Eclipse Committer, UOMo Lead, Mærsk Build Manager will present
>>>> "Triple-E class Continuous Delivery with Hudson, Maven and Mylyn"
>>>>
>>>> * JavaOne: September 30-October 4 2012, San Francisco, USA. Werner
>>>> Keil, JCP Executive Committee will represent "Eclipse UOMo, STEM, and
>>>> JSRs involved in, e.g. 331 or JCP.next"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 3:12 PM, Antonio Goncalves <
>>>> antonio.goncalves_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Markus,
>>>>>
>>>>> I think everybody agrees that having a standard API for logging is
>>>>> important (and with multi tenant in the way, it would really make sense for
>>>>> Java EE 7). But the problem is "who would be ready to start a new JSR on
>>>>> logging" ? I don't personally know the developers behind JUL, Log4j, SLF4J
>>>>> or Logback... but they would be awesome candidates.
>>>>>
>>>>> Antonio
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 8:24 AM, Markus Eisele <myfear_at_web.de> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Popping this up again because of the missing feedback from Linda/Bill.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Markus
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 16 April 2012 19:49, Antonio Goncalves <
>>>>>> antonio.goncalves_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> > I like the idea of standardizing staging in all the specs (and not
>>>>>> just JSF)
>>>>>> > and I also like the idea of using this staging for log levels
>>>>>> (instead of
>>>>>> > FINEST, TRACE or whatever). But again, that would mean having a
>>>>>> standard way
>>>>>> > accross Java EE to define staging and log levels
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > On Sunday, April 15, 2012, Adam Bien wrote:
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Hi Antonio,
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> whats about coupling the log settings to "run levels"?
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Every application server I know comes with "development" and
>>>>>> "production"
>>>>>> >> stage.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> We could rely on the spec packages and use then something like:
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> javax.ejb=production (whatever it means for Log4j -> mapping would
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> >> server-specific)
>>>>>> >> javax.rs=development
>>>>>> >> javax.enterprise.inject (but now org.weld)
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> etc.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> I see a problem with your proposals, that the specifiied log
>>>>>> levels do not
>>>>>> >> have to be available for each framework (log4j, java logging,
>>>>>> etc.).
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> thoughts?
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> adam
>>>>>> >> On 09.03.2012, at 15:43, Antonio Goncalves wrote:
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> > Hi all,
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> > We are in 2012 and I just spent a few hours trying to display
>>>>>> the logs
>>>>>> >> > of an application on GlassFish 3.1.2 and JBoss 7.1.0 (and it's
>>>>>> not the first
>>>>>> >> > time in my career). Modules to exclude in one, jars to add in the
>>>>>> >> > WEB-INF/lib on the other... or to exclude. And of course, that's
>>>>>> just my
>>>>>> >> > application Log4j logs. If I want to have more logs on javax.ejb
>>>>>> I need to
>>>>>> >> > setup a different file in JBoss and another one in GlassFish.
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> > I know javax.util.logging exists in Java SE but nobody tends to
>>>>>> use it
>>>>>> >> > (despite GlassFish uses it and JBoss has a brand new logger that
>>>>>> wraps
>>>>>> >> > java.util.logging), I know we can happily choose from 10
>>>>>> fashionable brand
>>>>>> >> > new logging frameworks... but really, it's a pain. Every
>>>>>> application uses
>>>>>> >> > logs. Every framework uses logs. Every Java EE spec
>>>>>> implementation uses
>>>>>> >> > logs. For an application to be portable across app servers, for a
>>>>>> >> > configuration file to be portable across Java EE specs, we
>>>>>> should do
>>>>>> >> > something.
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> > I would love to write :
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> > javax.ejb.level = debug
>>>>>> >> > javax.persistence.level = debug
>>>>>> >> > org.weld.level = debug
>>>>>> >> > my.app.level = debug
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> > Add this config file under WEB-INF/classes and don't worry about
>>>>>> >> > anything else... and have the same behavior under GlassFish,
>>>>>> JBoss or
>>>>>> >> > whatever.
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> > Logging frameworks have been a battle since day one and it's one
>>>>>> of the
>>>>>> >> > things that make me feel the Java ecosystem is too complex and
>>>>>> is slowly
>>>>>> >> > fading from developers/ops concerns. Gosh, I just want to
>>>>>> display some logs,
>>>>>> >> > why do I have to choose from 10 different frameworks and why
>>>>>> should I battle
>>>>>> >> > with app server configuration.
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> > Isn't it the role of the Java EE spec to make the other spec
>>>>>> agree to a
>>>>>> >> > standard ? And what about logging ?
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> > Antonio
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > --
>>>>>> > Antonio Goncalves
>>>>>> > Software architect and Java Champion
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Web site | Twitter | Blog | LinkedIn | Paris JUG
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Antonio Goncalves
>>>>> Software architect and Java Champion
>>>>>
>>>>> Web site <http://www.antoniogoncalves.org> | Twitter<http://twitter.com/agoncal>|
>>>>> LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/agoncal> | Paris JUG<http://www.parisjug.org> |
>>>>> Devoxx France <http://www.devoxx.fr>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Antonio Goncalves
>>> Software architect and Java Champion
>>>
>>> Web site <http://www.antoniogoncalves.org> | Twitter<http://twitter.com/agoncal>|
>>> LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/agoncal> | Paris JUG<http://www.parisjug.org> |
>>> Devoxx France <http://www.devoxx.fr>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Antonio Goncalves
>> Software architect and Java Champion
>>
>> Web site <http://www.antoniogoncalves.org> | Twitter<http://twitter.com/agoncal>|
>> LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/agoncal> | Paris JUG<http://www.parisjug.org> |
>> Devoxx France <http://www.devoxx.fr>
>>
>
>