jsr342-experts@javaee-spec.java.net

[jsr342-experts] Re: Logs. Should we finally do something ?

From: Markus Eisele <myfear_at_web.de>
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 05:22:34 +0200

Hi Antonio,

thanks for pushing this! I am curious about the outcome. That would be a
huge step forward!

- M

On 7 September 2012 00:59, Antonio Goncalves <antonio.goncalves_at_gmail.com>wrote:

> Bill, Linda, I have an interesting comment on my blog from Ceki Gülcü :
> http://antoniogoncalves.org/2012/09/06/i-need-you-for-logging-api-spec-lead/#comment-1468
>
> *I don’t think conjuring a successful logging standard is going to be a
> walk in the park. Do you know if Oracle/Sun would support this JSR?
> *
> I don't know if Ceki would be interested to be part or lead such a JSR but
> he is asking if such an effort would be supported by Oracle. What is your
> point of view on this ?
>
> Antonio
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 2:08 PM, Antonio Goncalves <
> antonio.goncalves_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Well, you never know, someone out there might be interested :
>> http://antoniogoncalves.org/2012/09/06/i-need-you-for-logging-api-spec-lead/
>>
>>
>> Antonio
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 3:32 PM, Werner Keil <werner.keil_at_gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> The fact is, Log4J, SLF4J and Logback were all done at least partly by Ceki
>>> Gülcü[?]
>>> I haven't met him personally as I remember we were speaking at different
>>> days on events like DevoXX, but I've been in touch with him since
>>> investigating a unified logging strategy for several large telcos over the
>>> last couple of years, most recently about a year ago in India.
>>>
>>> He's based in Switzerland, but I am not sure, if he is JCP Member or
>>> interested in this kind of thing.
>>>
>>> If you could get his support or participation in a Logging JSR, this
>>> sounds like a great idea, to get things right.
>>> While it almost replicated some JavaEE aspects like JSF Bean Converters
>>> (without JSF Context) and has a "light" version of JSR-310 somewhat similar
>>> to the Fantom language (which as mentioned also offers modularity) JavaFX
>>> currently has no Logging functionality other than most likely using JDK
>>> Logging internally. A neutral and improved Logging JSR could therefore
>>> benefit not only EE and App Servers, but also Rich Clients in JavaFX and
>>> Mobile Solutions, if Java ever gains enough momentum there again...?[?]
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> --
>>>
>>> Werner Keil | JCP Executive Committee Member | Eclipse UOMo Lead
>>>
>>> Twitter @wernerkeil | #Java_Social | #EclipseUOMo | #OpenDDR
>>> Skype werner.keil | Google+ gplus.to/wernerkeil
>>>
>>> * Chip-to-Cloud Security Forum: September 19 2012, Nice, French Riviera.
>>> Werner Keil, JCP Executive Committee, JSR-321 EG Member will present
>>> "Trusted Computing API for Java™"
>>>
>>> * Eclipse Day Delft: September 27 2012, Delft, Netherlands. Werner Keil,
>>> Eclipse Committer, UOMo Lead, Mærsk Build Manager will present
>>> "Triple-E class Continuous Delivery with Hudson, Maven and Mylyn"
>>>
>>> * JavaOne: September 30-October 4 2012, San Francisco, USA. Werner Keil, JCP
>>> Executive Committee will represent "Eclipse UOMo, STEM, and JSRs involved
>>> in, e.g. 331 or JCP.next"
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 3:12 PM, Antonio Goncalves <
>>> antonio.goncalves_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Markus,
>>>>
>>>> I think everybody agrees that having a standard API for logging is
>>>> important (and with multi tenant in the way, it would really make sense for
>>>> Java EE 7). But the problem is "who would be ready to start a new JSR on
>>>> logging" ? I don't personally know the developers behind JUL, Log4j, SLF4J
>>>> or Logback... but they would be awesome candidates.
>>>>
>>>> Antonio
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 8:24 AM, Markus Eisele <myfear_at_web.de> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Popping this up again because of the missing feedback from Linda/Bill.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Markus
>>>>>
>>>>> On 16 April 2012 19:49, Antonio Goncalves <antonio.goncalves_at_gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> > I like the idea of standardizing staging in all the specs (and not
>>>>> just JSF)
>>>>> > and I also like the idea of using this staging for log levels
>>>>> (instead of
>>>>> > FINEST, TRACE or whatever). But again, that would mean having a
>>>>> standard way
>>>>> > accross Java EE to define staging and log levels
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On Sunday, April 15, 2012, Adam Bien wrote:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Hi Antonio,
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> whats about coupling the log settings to "run levels"?
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Every application server I know comes with "development" and
>>>>> "production"
>>>>> >> stage.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> We could rely on the spec packages and use then something like:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> javax.ejb=production (whatever it means for Log4j -> mapping would
>>>>> be
>>>>> >> server-specific)
>>>>> >> javax.rs=development
>>>>> >> javax.enterprise.inject (but now org.weld)
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> etc.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> I see a problem with your proposals, that the specifiied log levels
>>>>> do not
>>>>> >> have to be available for each framework (log4j, java logging, etc.).
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> thoughts?
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> adam
>>>>> >> On 09.03.2012, at 15:43, Antonio Goncalves wrote:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> > Hi all,
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > We are in 2012 and I just spent a few hours trying to display the
>>>>> logs
>>>>> >> > of an application on GlassFish 3.1.2 and JBoss 7.1.0 (and it's
>>>>> not the first
>>>>> >> > time in my career). Modules to exclude in one, jars to add in the
>>>>> >> > WEB-INF/lib on the other... or to exclude. And of course, that's
>>>>> just my
>>>>> >> > application Log4j logs. If I want to have more logs on javax.ejb
>>>>> I need to
>>>>> >> > setup a different file in JBoss and another one in GlassFish.
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > I know javax.util.logging exists in Java SE but nobody tends to
>>>>> use it
>>>>> >> > (despite GlassFish uses it and JBoss has a brand new logger that
>>>>> wraps
>>>>> >> > java.util.logging), I know we can happily choose from 10
>>>>> fashionable brand
>>>>> >> > new logging frameworks... but really, it's a pain. Every
>>>>> application uses
>>>>> >> > logs. Every framework uses logs. Every Java EE spec
>>>>> implementation uses
>>>>> >> > logs. For an application to be portable across app servers, for a
>>>>> >> > configuration file to be portable across Java EE specs, we should
>>>>> do
>>>>> >> > something.
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > I would love to write :
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > javax.ejb.level = debug
>>>>> >> > javax.persistence.level = debug
>>>>> >> > org.weld.level = debug
>>>>> >> > my.app.level = debug
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > Add this config file under WEB-INF/classes and don't worry about
>>>>> >> > anything else... and have the same behavior under GlassFish,
>>>>> JBoss or
>>>>> >> > whatever.
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > Logging frameworks have been a battle since day one and it's one
>>>>> of the
>>>>> >> > things that make me feel the Java ecosystem is too complex and is
>>>>> slowly
>>>>> >> > fading from developers/ops concerns. Gosh, I just want to display
>>>>> some logs,
>>>>> >> > why do I have to choose from 10 different frameworks and why
>>>>> should I battle
>>>>> >> > with app server configuration.
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > Isn't it the role of the Java EE spec to make the other spec
>>>>> agree to a
>>>>> >> > standard ? And what about logging ?
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > Antonio
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > --
>>>>> > Antonio Goncalves
>>>>> > Software architect and Java Champion
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Web site | Twitter | Blog | LinkedIn | Paris JUG
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Antonio Goncalves
>>>> Software architect and Java Champion
>>>>
>>>> Web site <http://www.antoniogoncalves.org> | Twitter<http://twitter.com/agoncal>|
>>>> LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/agoncal> | Paris JUG<http://www.parisjug.org> |
>>>> Devoxx France <http://www.devoxx.fr>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Antonio Goncalves
>> Software architect and Java Champion
>>
>> Web site <http://www.antoniogoncalves.org> | Twitter<http://twitter.com/agoncal>|
>> LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/agoncal> | Paris JUG<http://www.parisjug.org> |
>> Devoxx France <http://www.devoxx.fr>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Antonio Goncalves
> Software architect and Java Champion
>
> Web site <http://www.antoniogoncalves.org> | Twitter<http://twitter.com/agoncal>|
> LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/agoncal> | Paris JUG<http://www.parisjug.org> |
> Devoxx France <http://www.devoxx.fr>
>




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