Ed,
I appreciate your detail response.
For some reason several links you have provided appears in the forum as empty.
But I have all of them in my corresponding email so I will put them in response.
>Yes, this seems like a decent plan. Believe it or not, we did
>exactly this kind of thing when we started development of JSF 2.0 in
>earnest, but we did it on a wiki [1] and solicited community input.
>Furthermore, we continued to fold in communyity input as we went. [2]
You are right the JSF 2.0 plan was indeed very similar and addresses wide circle of issues.
But the plan was in use a couple years ago. Now we need to have a new plan to see our perspective. This is the reason I have started the thread :)
>We worked very hard to introduce those changes in a way that users could
>easily adopt them without breaking backwards compatibility.
I can confirm it. At least for us it was so easy to switch to JSF 2.0 that I wouldn't call it migration :)
>Vlad, I appreciate and respect your enthusiasm. I think what you're
>looking for is a community roadmap for JSF. I've started the page, I
>want *you*, Vlad, to throw some ideas up there
>http://wiki.java.net/bin/view/Projects/JsfCommunityRoadMap
Thank you for support! I definitely will put there a bunch of ideas.
If ten percents of the ideas will be implemented I will be happy in this respect.
It would be helpful to know what time period we have to defined, polish and post ideas to the road map.
>Just because you haven't seen it, doesn't mean it does not exist.
Now I remember the plan. I have seen it, but it was a long time ago and I forgot ;)
>Why should *JSF* have support for JSON? Clearly JSF isn't the only part
>of Java that would benefit from JSON (as shown by the existence of
>several Java JSON solutions). Doesn't that seem like something the core
>Java platform should have? Your suggestion lets me illustrate one
>aspect of specification development that is not obvious: placing things
>in their proper context. Sure, it's easy to say: "JSF should have this,
>and JSF should have that" but JSF is a part of the JavaEE platform. We
>can't just grab features left and right, as non-platform frameworks *can
>and should* do.
Here are my reasons:
1) The biggest area of JSON usage is web framework(JSF) comparing to other parts of JavaEE.
2) JSON could improve such processes as HTML Rendering, data exchange server with client, implementing data model, more web oriented event model and so on.
3) Including "native" support of JSON eventually will bring positive in many cases radical changes to the architecture of JSF framework.
4) Including additional part to existing specification easier to implement than creating completely new part of JavaEE.
No doubt that after concept of using JSON will take solid form it should be moved to separate specification.
>Yes, leveraging HTML5 WebSocket is important.
If I understand correctly implementing this thing will bring fairly radical change to JSF.
>I love this. Some say JSF is not component oriented enough. Now you're
>saying it's *too* component oriented.
One of the reason I have said so is that it's a good idea to completely eliminate java based rendering code at all from the framework :)
Composition component is a good start to this direction.
>Only recently? Users could switch to facelets as soon as facelets
>existed, which was in 2005. You are confusing the date of specification
>with the date of availability. As long as I'm spec lead, the date of
>availability will always predate the date of specification.
If you recommended it at this time I would without much thinking switch to facelets.
Please next time use your influence in such situations :)
>Doch, JBoss EL (written by Jacob Hookom at the request of Gavin King)
>has had this feature since Seam came out.
The same here I was waiting for recommendations from JSF team.
Maybe next time I will be less connected to official line.
>I've been soliciting such comments via my blog entries, occasionally
>pointing to wikis for more detailed discussion, for years.
Yes, recently I was trying to find something on your blog and it was a little bit painful to navigate between months of archive.
I understand it's not your fault that creators of blogs system have no idea how to apply scrollbar for navigation between posts.
>Become an observer on JSR-314-OPEN. You'll see the
>discussions.
>http://weblogs.java.net/blog/edburns/archive/2009/03/response_to_a_c.html
I did. Thank you for suggestion.
>This is from MARCH 2009! How can you say NEVER?
A little more advertisement would be helpful.
>As I said, I welcome and encourage your participation. Put it up on the
>wiki page I started.
I will do it. Let's make the JSF a more exciting framework :)
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